This week, Zali Steggal's climate action bill is going up before federal parliament in Australia.

But will it happen? Or will it be skewered by ideology.

Rod interviews Mark Butler, the Federal Shadow Minister for Environment and Climate Change.

Recorded on the lawns of Parliament House in Canberra, where you can hear how we were interrupted by some vocal climate activists. Tensions are running high, people are worried.

Rod's book, Ten Journeys on a Fragile Planet is out this week.

Now available from https://tenjourneys.blogspot.com/p/where-to-buy.html