In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue through The Dark Night of the Soul (Book Two, Chapters 19–20). They reflect on St. John’s 10-step “mystic ladder” of divine love—from turn to burn—blending scripture, lived experience, and Andrew’s upcoming 12-hour overnight performance, Dark Night. Together they explore perseverance, the quiet work of desire, and how growth unfolds through trust, consistency, and showing up.

 Book II chapters 19-20 

00:48 Discussing the Mystic Ladder of Divine Love

01:22 Exploring the First Steps: Languish and Swoon

04:35 Seeking and the Journey Up the Ladder

18:53 The Role of Teachers and Guides

24:49 The Struggle and Joy of Progression

36:00 The Importance of Process Over Performance

38:57 The Power of Repetition

40:29 The Mystic Ladder: A Metaphor for Human Endeavor

42:35 Steps of the Mystic Ladder

49:16 The Final Steps: Hold and Burn

51:18 The Journey of Transformation

01:09:52 The Good Place and the Mystic Ladder

01:15:30 Final Thoughts

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com