In this episode, Imran & Nick sit down with Dr. Margie Warrell — bestselling author of The Courage Gap, leadership coach, and advisor to NASA, Microsoft, and Visa — for a conversation about why the gap between what leaders are doing and what they're capable of almost always comes down to fear. Margie shares the principle that's guided her life since childhood on an Australian dairy farm: growth and comfort can't ride the same horse. From there, they dig into why we overestimate risk, underestimate ourselves, and pay what she calls a "timidity tax" every time we choose safety over action.

Margie breaks down why courage isn't a personality trait but a learnable skill, how the most successful founders she's met — including Richard Branson — didn't avoid failure but changed their relationship with it, and what it takes to scale a courage mindset across teams and organizations.