CMC Podcast

Topics:

0:35 How does NFPA compliant gear as well as modern gear in general change what we do, how we rig and the way we operate?

1:18 Redundancy - What needs to be backed up and what doesn't? Starting with harness.

3:40 Redundancy of anchors and specifically anchor points.

11:00 Redundancy in anchor plates.

13:30 Redundant carabiners in twin tension systems.

18:35 Redundancy in edge protection.

23:48 Change of direction in twin tension systems.

28:10 Wrapping webbing around the top rail of the litter to back it up.

30:08 Litters in helicopter rescue.

Important Warning

• Many of the activities discussed in this podcast pose a very substantial risk of serious injury or death.
• Products and techniques discussed in this podcast are intended for use by specially trained professionals.
• Technical rescue, rappelling, climbing and the training involved are very hazardous activities. Each situation has its own unique conditions and must be evaluated by those present. Effective risk management comes from experience, proper training and good personal judgment.
• CMC is not liable for any damages arising from abuse or improper use of the techniques or equipment discussed in this podcast.
• Topics discussed are the ideas and opinions of each individual.
• Department protocol and regulations should always take precedence.

1:17 Real people vs manikins?

9:16 Do you know of people who still use manikins?

10:24 Confined space training and realistic spaces - are you training as you would conduct a real rescue?

11:58 Who do you contact to get access to real spaces to training in?

17:40 What is the purpose of training and what are the different goals?

19:38 Are you learning a skill or doing a realistic training?

22:00 Training with realistic resources and man power.

24:55 Logistics of training people and the importance of repetition.

26:15 Hobbyist vs practitioner.

26:44 Training bias and practicing your bread and butter.

31:03 How do you innovate if you're always practicing as you would conduct a real rescue?

38:22 Are you prepared for possible mutual aid call scenarios in your neighboring area?

Links:

2:30 2004 ITRS, 'Using Live Rescuers as "Victims" in Vertical Rope Rescue Training - "Is it Safe?"' by Tom Finch https://itrsonline.org/tproduct/1-365251861291-using-live-rescuers-as-victims-in-vertic

3:05 2011 ITRS, 'Study of the Perceived Benefits & Liabilities of Use of Manikins vs. Live Patients in Rescue Training' by Russel McCullar https://itrsonline.org/tproduct/1-966765737441-study-of-the-perceived-benefits-amp-liab

Important Warning

• Many of the activities discussed in this podcast pose a very substantial risk of serious injury or death.
• Products and techniques discussed in this podcast are intended for use by specially trained professionals.
• Technical rescue, rappelling, climbing and the training involved are very hazardous activities. Each situation has its own unique conditions and must be evaluated by those present. Effective risk management comes from experience, proper training and good personal judgment.
• CMC is not liable for any damages arising from abuse or improper use of the techniques or equipment discussed in this podcast.
• Topics discussed are the ideas and opinions of each individual.
• Department protocol and regulations should always take precedence.

Topics

1:46 What would you say makes a rescue 'backcountry' as opposed to something else?

6:02 Volunteer retention in SAR?

13:40 Easy in, easy out.

17:50 MRA competency.

22:32 Maintaining competency and standards.

27:00 How do you test competency? How do you design tests so that people aren't just training to pass the test.

30:55 Who supplies medical support for the wilderness teams?

36:29 Search

44:16 Do you have two sets of gear?

Links

Craig McClure: https://www.roninrescue.com/

Important Warning

• Many of the activities discussed in this podcast pose a very substantial risk of serious injury or death.
• Products and techniques discussed in this podcast are intended for use by specially trained professionals.
• Technical rescue, rappelling, climbing and the training involved are very hazardous activities. Each situation has its own unique conditions and must be evaluated by those present. Effective risk management comes from experience, proper training and good personal judgment.
• CMC is not liable for any damages arising from abuse or improper use of the techniques or equipment discussed in this podcast.
• Topics discussed are the ideas and opinions of each individual.
• Department protocol and regulations should always take precedence.

3:39 Dale, what was your first exposure to bailout systems?

9:35 When you started off making procedures and figuring out how to do bailout in the 90's, was it mostly trial and error?

15:43 LeRoy, What was your first exposure to bailout?

19:42 Dale, do you remember your first solid bailout kit?

21:48 Dale, are you an escape belt guy or a harness in the pants guy?

24:14 LeRoy, were you a an escape belt guy or a harness in the pants guy when you were in the fire department?

27:28 Do you think there's a negative connotation with the term 'bailout kit'?

33:45 Forward deployed RIT teams.

38:01 The hook of the system rated as an emergency decent control device.

58:00 Fall protection harnesses for training.

110:03 Anchoring and running the rope or web around edges and corners to reduce force on the anchor.

116:58 What is the future of escape systems?

Links & Resources

0:58 Dale's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/DALEGPEKEL/videos

2:16 / 12:55 Bailout wall prop. Reach out to Dale Pekel directly for his bailout wall prop at [email protected] YouTube video : https://youtu.be/xMfbeaGBO-A

10:35 https://www.firechief.com/ & https://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/

18:16 / 105:07 Kelly Byrne, 2010 ITRS Defenestration Sensation Presentation: https://itrsonline.org/tproduct/1-840977196521-the-defenestration-sensation

18:50 London Fire Brigade training article from 1876: https://archive.org/details/fireprotectiona00shawgoog/page/n292/mode/2up?ref=ol&view=theater

51:40 Window Clearing, Anchoring and Exit Techniques: https://youtu.be/0K38As-hS7I

58:30 Dale's Improvised webbing harness YouTube video https://youtu.be/r7OoDhfDo6U

105:20 Mike Forbes & Matt Hunt, 2016 ITRS The Impact of Extreme Fire Behavior on Firefighter Escape Systems https://itrsonline.org/tproduct/1-343920467761-the-impact-of-extreme-fire-behavior-on-f

106:10 2017 Ole Kills & John McKently, Is My Escape Line Still Safe After ... ? An Investigation into the Fatigue Strength of Aramid Fibers in Escape Applications: https://itrsonline.org/tproduct/1-904616887791-is-my-escape-line-still-safe-after-an-in

113:50 Dale's Tool in the Wall Technique YouTube video: https://youtu.be/0K38As-hS7I

• Many of the activities discussed in this podcast pose a very substantial risk of serious injury or death.
• Products and techniques discussed in this podcast are intended for use by specially trained professionals.
• Technical rescue, rappelling, climbing and the training involved are very hazardous activities. Each situation has its own unique conditions and must be evaluated by those present. Effective risk management comes from experience, proper training and good personal judgment.
• CMC is not liable for any damages arising from abuse or improper use of the techniques or equipment discussed in this podcast.
• Topics discussed are the ideas and opinions of each individual.
• Department protocol and regulations should always take precedence.

Join the Conversation

Please email us with questions or comments about this topic at [email protected]

Important Warning:

• Many of the activities discussed in this podcast pose a very substantial risk of serious injury or death.
• Products and techniques discussed in this podcast are intended for use by specially trained professionals.
• Technical rescue, rappelling, climbing and the training involved are very hazardous activities. Each situation has its own unique conditions and must be evaluated by those present. Effective risk management comes from experience, proper training and good personal judgment.
• CMC is not liable for any damages arising from abuse or improper use of the techniques or equipment discussed in this podcast.
• Topics discussed are the ideas and opinions of each individual.
• Department protocol and regulations should always take precedence.

Links

4:00 YouTube Video - Vortex drop 2012  Paper - 2007 ITRS Presentation on Belay Line Tests with Vortex "Again.....Are you REALLY on Belay" (part 2)  -  Reed Thorne from Ropes that Rescue

6:20 YouTube Video: Rope Rescue Systems Testing - Main/Belay (Back-up) Failures

Kirk Mauthner Sharp Edge Testing in - EMBC Rope Rescue NIF Equipment Testing Summary Report 2016 (cmd + f and search 'sharp edge')
 

13:43 YouTube Video - How Far Will You Fall? - Tom Pendley
 

45:40 CMC Rope Rescue Manual

Join the Conversation

Please email us with questions or comments about this topic at [email protected]

Important Warning:

• Many of the activities discussed in this podcast pose a very substantial risk of serious injury or death.
• Products and techniques discussed in this podcast are intended for use by specially trained professionals.
• Technical rescue, rappelling, climbing and the training involved are very hazardous activities. Each situation has its own unique conditions and must be evaluated by those present. Effective risk management comes from experience, proper training and good personal judgment.
• CMC is not liable for any damages arising from abuse or improper use of the techniques or equipment discussed in this podcast.
• Topics discussed are the ideas and opinions of each individual.
• Department protocol and regulations should always take precedence.

1:18 There's no difference between NFPA and non-NFPA rated gear.

10:05 What are some of the portions of NFPA testing and inspecting?

17:25 Clarifying semantics of NFPA 'certified' vs 'classified' or 'compliant'.

25:24 What is the evolution of the testing process?

28:47 What gear is exempt from being NFPA compliant?

30:17 Evolution of the standards over time.

30:53 What impact should using NFPA gear have on the way we use the gear?

Links:

NFPA 1983 Standards: https://nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=1983

15:20 False Economy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_economy

Join the Conversation

Please email us with questions or comments about this topic at [email protected]

Important Warning:

• Many of the activities discussed in this podcast pose a very substantial risk of serious injury or death.
• Products and techniques discussed in this podcast are intended for use by specially trained professionals.
• Technical rescue, rappelling, climbing and the training involved are very hazardous activities. Each situation has its own unique conditions and must be evaluated by those present. Effective risk management comes from experience, proper training and good personal judgment.
• CMC is not liable for any damages arising from abuse or improper use of the techniques or equipment discussed in this podcast.
• Topics discussed are the ideas and opinions of each individual.
• Department protocol and regulations should always take precedence.

0:50 Myth 1: NFPA requires steel carabiners for use.

4:15 Myth 2: If you drop aluminum hardware it will develop microscopic cracks.

10:13 What do we do about the fire departments that say we have to use steel carabiners? How do we educate them that there's other ways to go?

15:57 Myth 3: We have to use G rated gear.

18:22 Myth 4: Your belay line has to be hooked up to your dorsal connection on your class III harness.

24:50 What do you tell people that are under the impression you have to wear a class III harness for rope rescue?

29:22 Myth 5: You can't use T rated gear on a rescue.

30:18 Myth 6: It's got to be a 15:1 safety factor, NFPA says so.

31:50 In NFPA 1983 now, what is a G rating for a descent control device?

47:00 Is there a difference between NFPA and non-NFPA gear?

Links:

NFPA 1983 Standards: https://nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=1983

20:05 Chiclets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiclets

Join the Conversation

Please email us with questions or comments about this topic at [email protected]

Important Warning:

• Many of the activities discussed in this podcast pose a very substantial risk of serious injury or death.
• Products and techniques discussed in this podcast are intended for use by specially trained professionals.
• Technical rescue, rappelling, climbing and the training involved are very hazardous activities. Each situation has its own unique conditions and must be evaluated by those present. Effective risk management comes from experience, proper training and good personal judgment.
• CMC is not liable for any damages arising from abuse or improper use of the techniques or equipment discussed in this podcast.
• Topics discussed are the ideas and opinions of each individual.
• Department protocol and regulations should always take precedence.

2:12 Myth 1: When you have a screw gate carabiner in the vertical axis you must always have it so the gate opening is at the bottom.

5:30 Myth 2: When you have two carabiners connected to the same thing the gates need to be opposite and opposed.

11:00 Myth 3: How you load webbing into an offset D carabiner.

15:18 Myth 4: No metal on metal.

21:58 Myth 5: Stay with dedicated main and dedicated belay and don't use TTRS because of edge transitions.

39:30 If something doesn't make sense, is 'why' a bad question to ask?

Links:

22:28 Mike Gibbs and Kevin Koprek - Two Tension or not to Tension: https://riggingforrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Two-Tension-or-Not-to-Tension.pdf

22:28 2015 ITRS Mike Gibbs - Mirrored Systems: http://itrsonline.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/ITRS-2015-Gibbs-Paper-Final.pdf

Join the Conversation

Please email us with questions or comments about this topic at [email protected]

Important Warning:

• Many of the activities discussed in this podcast pose a very substantial risk of serious injury or death.
• Products and techniques discussed in this podcast are intended for use by specially trained professionals.
• Technical rescue, rappelling, climbing and the training involved are very hazardous activities. Each situation has its own unique conditions and must be evaluated by those present. Effective risk management comes from experience, proper training and good personal judgment.
• CMC is not liable for any damages arising from abuse or improper use of the techniques or equipment discussed in this podcast.
• Topics discussed are the ideas and opinions of each individual.
• Department protocol and regulations should always take precedence.

Topics:

1:00 Who is John McKently?

2:05 What do you see as the biggest changes that have taken place over your career?

4:45 Carabiner types and material evolution.

7:40 What did you do before CMC?

8:45 How did you get into rescue originally?

10:00 How many rescues over the years?

11:50 Changes in systems and hardware.

18:40 Camp crews and labor management.

20:55 Other equipment changes over the years.

24:17 Standards

27:55 How do resources like helicopters interface with your typical responses?

33:05 Where do you think things in rope rescue are going?

39:08 Decent control numbers.

51:05 Closing thoughts.

Links:

2:30 Kernmantal Rope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernmantle_rope

2:30 Laid Rope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope#Laid_or_twisted_rope

Additional Links

Plymouth Cordage Company https://www.plymouthcordageco.org/

Join the Conversation

Please email us with questions or comments about this topic at [email protected]

Important Warning:

• Many of the activities discussed in this podcast pose a very substantial risk of serious injury or death.
• Products and techniques discussed in this podcast are intended for use by specially trained professionals.
• Technical rescue, rappelling, climbing and the training involved are very hazardous activities. Each situation has its own unique conditions and must be evaluated by those present. Effective risk management comes from experience, proper training and good personal judgment.
• CMC is not liable for any damages arising from abuse or improper use of the techniques or equipment discussed in this podcast.
• Topics discussed are the ideas and opinions of each individual.
• Department protocol and regulations should always take precedence.