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In this episode, Janey sits down with her co-hosts and co-founders of the Architecture + Design Library, Penny and Verity, for a candid, funny, and refreshingly real conversation about co-creation.

They unpack the dynamics of working closely with someone who thinks, creates, and responds differently — and why that can be your greatest strength.

From building trust and navigating creative tension, to letting go of control and staying aligned on the end goal, this episode explores what it really takes to build something meaningful together.

Whether you’re launching a project with a partner, hiring a collaborator, or simply curious about how strong creative partnerships work — this one’s for you.

🧵 In this episode:

• How Penny and Verity first met — and why not starting as friends worked in their favour
  
  
• Co-creation as a balance of dominance and surrender
  
  
• Why working with someone different can elevate your thinking
  
  
• Navigating tension without taking it personally
  
  
• Why they’ve never had a full-blown argument (and don’t expect to)
  
  
• What trust really looks like in business: action, not perfection
  
  
• Dividing roles, staying in your lane, and knowing when to let go
  
  
• The power of aligned vision over identical styles
  
  
• Designing and building in a male-dominated industry — and how they hold their own
  
  
• Common myths about female partnerships — and why they’re still going strong
  
  
• The importance of shared end goals and being flexible on the journey
  
  

💬 Reflections:

“We weren’t friends when we started — and that gave us a clean foundation.”
 “Trust is knowing it’ll get done, even if it’s not in your time frame.”
 “We debate constantly — not to argue, but to create better outcomes.”
 “You don’t have to agree on everything, but you do need to want the same result.”
 “We’ve built something based on respect — and that gives us room to be ourselves.”
 “You don’t need to think alike. You need to listen well.”

💡 Questions from AD Library Members:

• Penny: What does success look like to you?
  
  
• Verity: If you weren’t doing what you’re doing now, what path might you have taken?
  
  
• Penny: What design rule would you love to break — and why?
  
  
• Verity: What part of the industry do you feel is still stuck in the past?
  
  

💌 Want to learn more?

• Follow the podcast: @betweenthell_lls
  
  
• Explore the Architecture + Design Library: @adlibrary.nz
  
  
• Website: https://www.adlibrary.nz
  
  

Between the Walls is hosted by Janey — opening up warm, grounded conversations with the people reimagining how we design, build, and live in Aotearoa.
 🎧 Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and share this episode with someone who’s dreaming up something bold.