Coaching Done Well x Coaching Unpacked

The conversation with Gene Tavernetti covers the importance of instructional skills, explicit instruction, the FAST framework, cognitive load, challenges faced by coaches, balancing human and hardware in education, resistance to coaching, the role of instructional coaches, and the importance of district support for coaching. The hosts also discuss the launch of the Education Leaders podcast network.

Takeaways

• Explicit instruction is foundational and essential for effective teaching.
• Coaching programs require district support and a focus on improving instructional skills.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Welcome
• 04:07 Overview of Gene's Background
• 05:52 Importance of Instructional Skills
• 06:54 Explicit Instruction and Fluency
• 10:24 The FAST Framework and Cognitive Load
• 16:23 Challenges Faced by Coaches
• 22:24 Balancing Human and Hardware in Education
• 24:16 Resistance to Coaching and Professional Development
• 27:11 The Role of Instructional Coaches
• 31:15 The Importance of District Support for Coaching
• 33:01 Closing Remarks and Podcast Network Launch

The episode kicks off with a warm welcome and a glimpse into the hosts' current locations. They discuss the start of a new season, the changing seasons, and the impact of climate change. The conversation then delves into the origins of the show's name, inspired by a story about a neurosurgeon seeking coaching for tennis and applying the same principles to his medical practice. The hosts express skepticism about the idea of AI coaching and emphasize the importance of human connection and the messy, human element of coaching. They also announce the expansion of the Education Leaders Podcast Network and tease upcoming guests and topics for future episodes.

Takeaways

• Human connection and the messy, human element of coaching are essential and cannot be replaced by AI.
• The Education Leaders Podcast Network is expanding, offering a variety of podcasts on leadership, coaching, teaching strategies, and current affairs in education.

Chapters

• 00:00 Season 4 Kickoff and Changing Seasons
• 04:44 The Origins of Coaching Done Well
• 08:26 The Perils of AI Coaching
• 19:01 The Importance of Human Connection in Coaching
• 42:33 Expansion of the Education Leaders Podcast Network

We're ending Season 3 with a room full of people we've wanted on the show for ages. Sarah Cottinghatt, Haili Hughes and Adam Kohlbeck join Shane and Jim to talk about their new book, Coaching for Adaptive Expertise: Developing Teachers Who Make Better Decisions, and the conversation goes exactly where we'd hoped.

We open with a question Jim borrowed from Michael Bungay Stanier: what do you now believe to be true? From there the three of them make a case that's been building over years of practice. Coaching done well isn't about polishing teacher behaviours or checking whether a technique showed up in a lesson. It's about developing teacher judgment. Haili calls out the hollowed out version of coaching that looks busy and measurable but leaves a teacher's thinking untouched. Sarah unpacks why decision making sits at the centre of professionalism. And Adam gives us three things he now holds to be true: purpose, honouring expertise, and agency.

We dig into mental models and why two teachers can watch the same classroom moment and notice completely different things. We sit with the hardest part of any coaching conversation, the moment it turns to what didn't go well, and Sarah and Adam reframe it beautifully as building a shared version of reality rather than delivering a verdict. And Haili closes the trailer round with a Jaws homage you'll want to hear twice.

If you've ever carried a bit of feedback trauma from early in your career, this one's for you. So is the bigger argument running underneath it all: stop dumbing things down for teachers. Aim for clarity over the complexity instead.

A huge thank you to Sarah, Haili and Adam, and to everyone who joined us live. What a way to close the season.

Connect with our guests
Sarah Cottinghatt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-cottinghatt-08a80533
Haili Hughes: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-haili-hughes-178479186
Adam Kohlbeck: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-kohlbeck-fcct-b31786102

Get the book
Coaching for Adaptive Expertise: Developing Teachers Who Make Better Decisions (Routledge): https://www.routledge.com/Coaching-for-Adaptive-Expertise-Developing-Teachers-Who-Make-Better-Decisions/Cottinghatt-Hughes-Kohlbeck/p/book/9781032739793

The conversation delved into the world of coaching, leadership, and creating a safe space for vulnerability. Dean Clayden shared insights on coaching, positive psychology, and the impact of male teachers on underachieving boys. The discussion also explored the idea of coaching stance, creating safety in conversations, coaching for change, and connecting vulnerability with trust.

Takeaways

• Coaching and leadership
• Creating a safe space for vulnerability

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Weather Chit-Chat
• 10:01 Impact of Male Teachers on Underachieving Boys
• 17:56 Coaching Stance and its Interweaving with Positive Psychology
• 28:02 Coaching for Change and Shared Craft Knowledge
• 32:57 Connecting Vulnerability with Trust

The conversation begins with an introduction and casual weather chit-chat, followed by the introduction of guests Kim and Daryl. The discussion then delves into beliefs about coaching done well, followed by a conversation about blog posts and dead birds. Daryl shares highlights from his chapter on student-focused coaching, and the conversation concludes with reflections on the stories shared and the overall conversation.

Takeaways

• Coaching is a human-centered and continuous learning process.
• Leadership is a primary enabler for effective coaching, and coaching is not a uniform treatment.
• Coaching is about creating awareness and supporting the human aspect of the work.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Weather Chit-Chat
• 08:01 Beliefs About Coaching Done Well
• 13:01 Discussion on Blog Posts and Dead Birds
• 20:25 Reflections on the Conversation and Stories Shared

The conversation with Orla Dempsey covers topics such as coaching, interview preparation, storytelling, and the use of AI in coaching. Orla shares insights on her coaching approach, the importance of storytelling, and the potential risks of AI in coaching.

Takeaways

• Coaching Done Well
• The Power of Storytelling

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene
• 07:24 Coaching and Interview Preparation
• 30:31 The Role of AI in Coaching

Steve Barkley and Bill Sommers are back on Coaching Done Well. A year after their first conversation with Shane Leaning and Jim Thompson, two of the most experienced voices in instructional coaching and educational leadership return for a LinkedIn Live episode that goes deep on what actually makes coaching work in schools.

Steve breaks down his coaching continuum, running from open-ended coaching questions through scaffolding to explicit, supervisory feedback. His take is clear: start open. You can always add scaffold. Taking it away once it's in place is much harder. He also makes the case for replacing feedback with feed forward, arguing that the only reason a coach is in a classroom today is because they're interested in tomorrow.

Bill introduces his concept of "arc builders" and asks a pointed question: if it's raining in education right now, who is actually building? He names his own arc builders, including Art Costa, John Saphier, Marshall Goldsmith, and Richard Sheridan, and pushes coaches and school leaders to think about who they surround themselves with and whether those people give energy or drain it.

Both guests keep coming back to the same principle: effective coaching is driven by the coachee, not the coach. Steve references Michael Bungay Stanier's phrase "caring enough not to care" as shorthand for what this looks like in practice. Bill connects it to Marshall Goldsmith's stakeholder centred coaching and the feed forward process.

The conversation also covers putting staff first so they can put students first, why stories matter more than policy binders, hope as a real strategy for school improvement, and how leaders create the conditions for a learning culture where coaching can actually land.

Whether you're an instructional coach, school leader, head of school, or anyone working in teacher development and professional learning, this episode is packed with practical wisdom from two people who've spent decades in the work.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Welcome and introductions 03:07 - Steve and Bill reintroduce themselves 04:10 - Steve on coaching driven by the coachee 08:46 - What do you now believe to be true about coaching done well? 10:50 - The modelling approach: watch the kids first, not the coach 12:13 - Michael Bungay Stanier: caring enough not to care 12:43 - Steve on the feedback continuum: from telling to thinking 16:44 - The scaffolding continuum: open, scaffolded, and explicit 22:06 - Bill on arc builders and feed forward 27:10 - Shane reflects: coaching as forward-looking and invitational 30:23 - Audience Q&A: standardisation vs personalisation 32:37 - Steve: personalisation in coaching means the coachee drives it 34:36 - Putting staff first so they can put students first 38:05 - Five years from now: hope, stories, and mattering 43:55 - Closing reflections

People and resources mentioned:

Steve Barkley - barkleypd.com | Bill Sommers - learningomnivores.com | Michael Bungay Stanier | Marshall Goldsmith - What Got You Here Won't Get You There | Art Costa & Bena Kallick - Habits of Mind | John Saphier - High Expectations Teaching | Amy Edmondson - The Right Kind of Wrong | Richard Sheridan - Joy, Inc. and Chief Joy Officer | Zach Muriel - The Power of Mattering | Tom Schimmer - The Agile Classroom | Dan Meyer | Peter Drucker | Peter Block | Parker Palmer | Edgar Schein | Andy Hargreaves | Johnny Uttley & John Thomson - Putting Staff First | Shannon Moran - Evocative Coaching | Heath Brothers - The Power of Moments | Jim Knight | Kate Murphy - Why We Click

The conversation begins with a warm welcome and expressions of gratitude, setting the tone for a reflective and insightful discussion on coaching. The hosts share their experiences, reflect on coaching progress, and discuss strategies for coaching conversations. They emphasize the importance of building relationships, trust, and the impact of reflection on future intentions. The episode concludes with a call to action and a teaser for future guests.

Takeaways

• Gratitude and warmth set the tone for reflective coaching discussions.
• Reflection on coaching progress is essential for identifying goals and strategies.
• Building relationships and trust are crucial for effective coaching conversations.

Chapters

• 00:00 Welcoming and Gratitude
• 10:00 Preparing for a Coaching Conversation
• 17:08 Reflecting on Coaching Progress
• 25:39 Impact of Reflection on Future Intentions
• 31:56 Closing Reflection and Gratitude

If you coach people - or lead people you're trying to help grow - you already know what good coaching is supposed to look like. When did you last let someone do it to you?

This live coaching session is what happens when two coaches decide to stop talking about vulnerability and actually practise it.

Jim Thompson - co-author of Video Coaching Done Well - coaches Shane Leaning using the video coaching method, live, in front of a LinkedIn audience. Shane had filmed himself leading a session of his Education Leaders Intensive: 18 school leaders from around the world, meeting weekly on a 10-week programme. He watched it back. He was not happy with what he saw.

'I was rambling,' Shane said. 'Lots of filler words. And I could feel myself going: come on, Shane, these are leaders giving up their time.'

So he brought the clip to Jim.

During the session, Shane admitted something he'd never quite said out loud: 'Before every session, I tell my wife - this is going to be the worst one yet. She must be sick of it. I know it's not true. But the nerves come every time.'

Twenty minutes later, Shane had three concrete strategies he didn't walk in with. And the problem turned out to be different from what he'd thought. Not a skill gap. A confidence dip - one that hit at the very opening of each session, before he'd had a chance to settle. Once it was named, the way forward became obvious.

Jim walked away thinking about a single word. What if coaches replaced 'goal' with 'intention'? It changes how people show up to the conversation entirely.

If you coach, lead, or teach - here's what you'll take from this:

→ The "money question" Jim uses that unlocks more than "what would you do differently?" does

→ Why the best coaching questions don't come from a prepared list - they come from listening

→ The goal vs intention distinction (and when each one serves the coachee better)

→ Three grounding strategies for showing up with clarity when nerves have other plans

→ What "holding space" actually looks and feels like - demonstrated live

This is Coaching Done Well. Coaches need coaches. If you work with other people's growth and you've been saying that without quite acting on it - this episode is for you.

👇 Have you ever filmed yourself coaching or teaching and watched it back? What did you see? Tell us in the comments.

🔔 Subscribe to Coaching Done Well for more honest conversations about what it actually takes to get better at this work.

TIMESTAMPS:

0:00 - Welcome from Shanghai and upstate New York

1:09 - Setting the scene

4:23 - Acknowledgements and the power of connection 6:27 - Shane explains what's about to happen

9:20 - The coaching begins

11:20 - What gives Shane energy in this work

13:46 - Shane names his goal: clarity and succinctness

16:03 - Scaling the goal 1-10

18:58 - The money question: what would your coachees be doing differently?

21:24 - How do you even measure that?

25:25 - What does "clarity" actually mean?

27:31 - Three strategies Shane commits to

30:22 - What Shane learned about himself as a coach

33:13 - Goal vs intention - a word that changes everything

40:43 - The power of listening for a coach

43:04 - The learning question: what's been most useful?

45:04 - Closing reflections

Shane Leaning: educationleaders.co

#LiveCoachingSession #VideoCoaching #CoachingSession #CoachingSkills #LeadershipCoaching #ProfessionalDevelopment #CoachingDoneWell #ExecutiveCoaching #InstructionalCoaching #EducationLeaders

In this episode of Coaching Done Well, Shane Leaning and Jim Thompson engage in a deep conversation with Jim Knight about the essence of coaching, the importance of human connection, and the role of AI in education. They explore the mission of instructional coaching, the nature of truth in coaching practices, and the significance of meaningful conversations in fostering student success. The discussion also delves into the complexities of AI's role in coaching, emphasizing that while AI can provide ideas, it cannot replace the human element essential for effective coaching. Ultimately, the episode concludes with a hopeful vision for more life-giving conversations in education.

Takeaways

• The mission of instructional coaching is student success every day.
• It's important to hold your truths lightly and be open to others' perspectives.
• Conversations are central to the effectiveness of schools and coaching.
• AI can provide ideas but lacks the human connection necessary for coaching.
• Coaching is a profoundly human endeavor that requires empathy and understanding.
• Two monologues do not equal a dialogue; true conversation requires engagement.
• Life-giving conversations can transform relationships and foster growth.
• Coaches who leverage AI will have an advantage over those who do not.
• Professionalism in coaching involves using discretion and adapting to individual needs.
• Adaptive challenges require human insight and cannot be solved by AI alone.

Sound bites

"Hold your truths lightly."

"AI is a vending machine for ideas."

"Two monologues don't equal a dialogue."