How do you get things done with people you don’t trust or even actively oppose? In this episode we unpack Adam Kahane’s tough-but-practical second edition approach: stop waiting for consensus and embrace conflict as the raw material for cooperation. Learn the “stretch” method—move past politeness and persuasion, prioritize shared creation, and run small experiments instead of clinging to grand plans. Packed with real-world lessons, this conversation shows how incremental, courageous collaboration can produce progress in polarized, distrustful environments.

What you’ll take away:

• Why trust and agreement aren’t prerequisites for productive work
• How the “stretch” approach reframes conflict into creative energy
• Practical small-scale experiments to test collaboration under strain
• Mindsets for staying pragmatic and persistent when stakes (and tensions) are high

Tune in to learn how to make forward motion—even with the people you least expect to partner with.