Robert Leckey interviews Joe MacInnis, a medical doctor studying leadership in high-risk environments, whose pioneering undersea research earned him the Order of Canada, and Taylor Owen, the founding director of the Center for Media, Technology and Democracy and an Associate Professor in the Max Bell School of Public Policy at McGill University. They discuss the components of deep leadership, on breaching the gap between academia, the publics, and the policymakers, on the need for new kinds of collaboration, and for public eloquence of leaders in a time of multiple crises.