Complex Couples Podcast

By Heidi ApplegarthSociety & Culture Religion & Spirituality Christianity Education Self-Improvement Relationships

Complex Couples Podcast episodes

October 27When My Husband Came Out: Our Story of Marriage, Faith, and Choosing Each Other
What happens when your spouse reveals something that changes how you understand your marriage—but doesn't necessarily change how you feel about the person you married?
Daniel and I recently had the opportunity to sit down with Richard Ostler, host of the Listen, Learn, and Love podcast, for a conversation about our experience navigating a mixed-orientation marriage. Richard has spent years creating space for LGBTQ individuals and their loved ones to share their stories, and we were grateful for the warmth, curiosity, and compassion he brought to ours.
We talked about the night Daniel told me he was attracted to men, what surprised us about the years that followed, and some of the unexpected ways our marriage has challenged us to grow.
We also shared parts of our story we haven't always been comfortable talking about—including the challenges of intimacy, the judgments we've encountered, the questions we've had to confront, and what we're continuing to learn about love, honesty, faith, and personal agency.
Our experience isn't a prescription for anyone else's marriage. We believe there are many ways to navigate complicated relationships with integrity, and each person deserves the freedom to make those decisions for themselves.
Whether you're navigating a mixed-orientation marriage, supporting an LGBTQ loved one, or simply trying to make sense of the differences in your own relationship, I hope our conversation offers a little more understanding, possibility, and hope.
In This Episode
The night Daniel came out to me after 18 years of marriage
How our faith influenced the way we navigated the unexpected
The questions we faced about attraction and sexual intimacy
What it felt like when others questioned our marriage
What we've learned about honesty, authenticity, and agency
How we navigated conversations with our five children
Why we believe there is room for different choices and different stories

Links to Resources Mentioned
Richard Ostler — Listen, Learn, and Love Podcast
Voices of Hope Project — Ty Mansfield
North Star International
Gather Conference — Lift + Love
Complex Couples Coaching

Connect
✏️ How To Know If Your Marriage Is Over - The Aligned Framework ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/aligned-framework-course
Special Coupon Code for my podcast listeners. At checkout, use coupon code: PODCASTLOVE
🧭 FREE Guide "When Your Spouse Comes Out: 9 practical tools to help you navigate the aftermath of disclosure or discovery." ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/guide
⭐️ Want private coaching? ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
🎙️ Join me on my YouTube channel Complex Couples Podcast ➡ https://www.youtube.com/@complexcouplespodcast
Watch this episode here.
📧 Questions? Comments? A topic you’d like covered? Email me at: [email protected]
This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not replace therapy, and it's not a substitute for professional mental health care. The examples I share are brief snapshots designed to illustrate a principle and may not apply to every situation. Because every relationship is unique, consider these principles thoughtfully and seek individualized professional guidance when needed. If your relationship involves violence, intimidation, or you have concerns for your safety, please seek support from professionals who can help you assess your specific situation and address it appropriately.
1 hr 27 min
October 13Talking It Out vs Shutting Down: Who's Actually Healthier?
Whether you’re the one who wants to talk or the one who needs space, you each hold more power than you think.
In this episode, I take you into a quiet morning in my mudroom with Daniel and share what it took for us to get there. If hard conversations in your marriage tend to leave one of you pursuing and the other pulling away, I think you’ll find yourself in this one.
The belief I held for years about who was “healthy” in our conversations, and what I learned when I looked at it more closely
What each partner may actually be reaching for when a conversation gets hard
Simple ways to make difficult conversations feel more willing and less dragged for both of you

Resources
Terry Real, relationship expert (concepts referenced: “unbridled self-expression” and the “barf bag approach to intimacy”)

This Week’s Invitation
Notice which role you tend to step into when a hard conversation comes up. Then get curious about one small way you could soothe yourself before reaching for your partner or the door.

Work With Me
🧭 FREE Guide "When Your Spouse Comes Out: 9 practical tools to help you navigate the aftermath of disclosure or discovery." ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/guide
⭐️ Want private coaching? ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
🎙️ Join me on my YouTube channel Complex Couples Podcast ➡ Watch this episode here.
📧 Questions? Comments? A topic you’d like covered? Email me at: [email protected]
This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not replace therapy, and it's not a substitute for professional mental health care. The examples I share are brief snapshots designed to illustrate a principle and may not apply to every situation. Because every relationship is unique, consider these principles thoughtfully and seek individualized professional guidance when needed. If your relationship involves violence, intimidation, or you have concerns for your safety, please seek support from professionals who can help you assess your specific situation and address it appropriately.
17 min
September 29What If Standing Up for Yourself Isn’t About Standing Up to Them?
🔗 Get on the waitlist for the Couples Retreat here
What if the resentment you’re feeling is pointing to a place where you have more choice than you realize?
In this episode, I share a moment that challenged the way I was seeing my husband and helped me look more closely at a pattern between us.
We’ll explore what can happen when you separate the facts from the story you’re telling yourself and get curious about your own role without taking responsibility for what isn’t yours.
How resentment can build when you keep giving up what you want
Separating what your partner is actually doing from the story you’re telling yourself
The fears that can make it difficult to advocate for what matters to you
This Week’s Invitation
Look at where you’re angry with your partner for something.
Write down the data - using only what you can see and hear.
Ask yourself: What is my part in keeping this going? What could I do differently that does not depend on my partner changing first?
And finally, ask yourself, what am I afraid I might have to face if I actually did that?
Determine if you’re willing to face those fears or or whether, for now, you’d prefer to continue the pattern as it is. Either way, own that choice instead of making your partner the sole bad guy.
Connect
🧭 FREE Guide "When Your Spouse Comes Out: 9 practical tools to help you navigate the aftermath of disclosure or discovery." ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/guide
⭐️ Want private coaching? ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
🎙️ Join me on my YouTube channel Complex Couples Podcast ➡ Watch this episode here.
📧 Questions? Comments? A topic you’d like covered? Email me at: [email protected]
This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not replace therapy, and it's not a substitute for professional mental health care. The examples I share are brief snapshots designed to illustrate a principle and may not apply to every situation. Because every relationship is unique, consider these principles thoughtfully and seek individualized professional guidance when needed. If your relationship involves violence, intimidation, or you have concerns for your safety, please seek support from professionals who can help you assess your specific situation and address it appropriately.
15 min
September 08If Your Marriage Ends, Does That Mean You Didn’t Do Enough?
What if the end of your marriage has you wondering whether you could have done more, tried harder, or somehow been enough?
In this episode, I talk about the painful place where accountability can turn into believing the outcome was ours to control.
And what can begin to shift when we look at it differently.
Why it can feel like trying harder or becoming “better” could have changed the outcome
The difference between taking responsibility for your part and taking responsibility for the marriage itself
Where your effort matters, even when you can’t control what someone else chooses

This Week’s Invitation
Notice where you’re asking, “What else could I have done?” Consider whether the answer is something that was truly yours to change, or something you were trying to control.

Connect
🧭FREE Guide "When Your Spouse Comes Out: 9 practical tools to help you navigate the aftermath of disclosure or discovery." ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/guide
⭐️ Want private coaching? Apply here ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
🎙️ Join me on my YouTube channel Complex Couples Podcast ➡ Watch this episode here.
📧 Questions? Comments? A topic you’d like covered? Email me at: [email protected]
This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not replace therapy, and it's not a substitute for professional mental health care. The examples I share are brief snapshots designed to illustrate a principle and may not apply to every situation. Because every relationship is unique, consider these principles thoughtfully and seek individualized professional guidance when needed. If your relationship involves violence, intimidation, or you have concerns for your safety, please seek support from professionals who can help you assess your specific situation and address it appropriately.
10 min
September 01Daniel Episode: What Helps (and What Doesn’t) When Someone Comes Out
Someone you love just came out to you, or maybe you heard secondhand and don't know what to say.
Here's where to start.
Daniel and I talk through our experience with:
What actually is supportive in the response to someone coming out, and it wasn't what most people assume
The well-meaning response that can quietly do the most damage
Why the way you responded on day one isn't the end of the story

This Week's Invitation
If this is a situation you are currently facing, think of that person and consider what curiosity, instead of certainty, could offer them right now.
If you have regrets about how you’ve handled someone coming out to you, figure out what you wish you would have done differently, take ownership for the mistake, and try again!

Connect
🧭 FREE Guide "When Your Spouse Comes Out: 9 practical tools to help you navigate the aftermath of disclosure or discovery." ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/guide
Interested in private coaching?
➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
⭐️ Want private coaching?
➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
🎙️ Join me on my YouTube channel Complex Couples Podcast
➡ watch this episode here.
📧 Questions? Comments? A topic you’d like covered? Email me at: [email protected]
This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not replace therapy, and it's not a substitute for professional mental health care. The examples I share are brief snapshots designed to illustrate a principle and may not apply to every situation. Because every relationship is unique, consider these principles thoughtfully and seek individualized professional guidance when needed. If your relationship involves violence, intimidation, or you have concerns for your safety, please seek support from professionals who can help you assess your specific situation and address it appropriately.
33 min
August 25Could I have prevented this?
If you’ve wondered what you could have done differently after your spouse cheated, there may be a reason that question is so compelling.
When a spouse steps outside the marriage, it’s easy to look back at yourself and wonder what you could have changed.
In this episode, I share a story that changed the way I think about that question, and what we may miss when we’re searching for an answer.
Why “If I had just…” can feel like such a compelling place to look after a spouse cheats
What can happen when we try to make sense of someone else’s choices by looking at ourselves
How to begin sorting through what’s actually yours to examine in the relationship

This Week’s Invitation
Notice where you’ve been asking, “What could I have done differently?” Then get curious about what you’re hoping the answer to that question will give you.
If you’re having difficulty sorting through what’s true in your relationship, I’d love to help.

Resources Mentioned
Complex Couples Coaching

Connect
🧭 FREE Guide "When Your Spouse Comes Out: 9 practical tools to help you navigate the aftermath of disclosure or discovery." ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/guide
⭐️ Want private coaching? ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
🎙️ Join me on my YouTube channel Complex Couples Podcast ➡ watch this episode here.
📧 Questions? Comments? A topic you’d like covered? Email me at: [email protected]
This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not replace therapy, and it's not a substitute for professional mental health care. The examples I share are brief snapshots designed to illustrate a principle and may not apply to every situation. Because every relationship is unique, consider these principles thoughtfully and seek individualized professional guidance when needed. If your relationship involves violence, intimidation, or you have concerns for your safety, please seek support from professionals who can help you assess your specific situation and address it appropriately.
12 min
August 18If You're Gay and Cheating, I Understand Why
A phone call from a friend cracked open something I'd believed my whole life.
This episode walks through a real conversation that challenged how I think about infidelity, specifically for those in mixed orientation marriages.
If you're gay or lesbian and married to someone of the opposite sex, and you've stepped outside your marriage, this one's for you.
Today we’re talking about:
Why mixed orientation marriages create a two choice dilemma most people never have to face
What an affair actually does, and doesn't do
How to move from justification toward integrity, without shame driving the conversation

This Week's Invitation
Ask yourself honestly what your choices are impacting, and who deserves a say in them. Then take one honest step, even a small one, toward your spouse.

Connect
🧭FREE Guide "When Your Spouse Comes Out: 9 practical tools to help you navigate the aftermath of disclosure or discovery." ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/guide
⭐️Want private coaching? ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
🎙️Join me on my YouTube channel Complex Couples Podcast ➡ https://youtu.be/189wbVULsnE
📧Questions? Comments? A topic you’d like covered? Email me at: [email protected]

This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not replace therapy, and it's not a substitute for professional mental health care. The examples I share are brief snapshots designed to illustrate a principle and may not apply to every situation. Because every relationship is unique, consider these principles thoughtfully and seek individualized professional guidance when needed. If your relationship involves violence, intimidation, or you have concerns for your safety, please seek support from professionals who can help you assess your specific situation and address it appropriately.
8 min
August 11Why This Still Counts as Grief Even If Your Life Looks Normal
If your life looks normal from the outside but something inside you has quietly fallen apart, this episode is for you.
The kind of grief you’re experiencing has a specific name.

In This Episode
Why and how the loss you experience after a marriage disclosure or discovery is real grief, even without a funeral or a diagnosis

Why grief that no one else can see still moves through the same stages, anger, denial, bargaining, depression, and acceptance, in no particular order

How to ask for help without having to explain the full story yet

Resources Mentioned
North Star
Lift + Love

Connect
🧭 FREE Guide "When Your Spouse Comes Out: 9 practical tools to help you navigate the aftermath of disclosure or discovery." ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/guide
⭐️ Interested in private coaching? ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
🎙️Join me on my YouTube channel Complex Couples Podcast ➡ You can watch this episode here.
📧Questions? Comments? A topic you’d like covered? Email me at: [email protected]
This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not replace therapy, and it's not a substitute for professional mental health care. The examples I share are brief snapshots designed to illustrate a principle and may not apply to every situation. Because every relationship is unique, consider these principles thoughtfully and seek individualized professional guidance when needed. If your relationship involves violence, intimidation, or you have concerns for your safety, please seek support from professionals who can help you assess your specific situation and address it appropriately.
11 min
August 04Daniel Episode: When Your Spouse Lights Up Around Someone Else...What Are You Really Seeing?
Have you ever watched your spouse come alive around someone else and wondered, "Why don't they look at me like that?"
This week, Daniel and I have an honest conversation about jealousy, friendship, freedom, and what happens when we mistake our interpretations for reality.
In this episode, we'll discuss:
Why jealousy isn't always telling the story you think it is.
The difference between what you observe and what you conclude.
Why trying to control your spouse often pushes you further from what you want.
How we learned to navigate deep friendships without pretending the jealousy wasn't there.
What changed when we stopped focusing on controlling each other and started looking at ourselves.

This Week’s Invitation
The next time jealousy shows up, pause before you act.
Notice what you instinctively want to do. Do you:
Punish?
Withdraw?
Nag?
Beg for reassurance?
Compare yourself?
Try to control?
Instead of asking, "How do I get my spouse to stop making me feel this way?" try asking,
If I want my spouse to see me with more affection, what might I be doing that's getting in the way? How would I prefer to show up instead?

Resources Mentioned
North Star

Connect
🧭 FREE Guide "When Your Spouse Comes Out: 9 practical tools to help you navigate the aftermath of disclosure or discovery." ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/guide

Interested in private coaching?
Learn more ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
⭐️ Want private coaching? ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
🎙️ Join me on my YouTube channel Complex Couples Podcast ➡ You can watch this episode here.
📧 Questions? Comments? A topic you’d like covered? Email me at: [email protected]
This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not replace therapy, and it's not a substitute for professional mental health care. The examples I share are brief snapshots designed to illustrate a principle and may not apply to every situation. Because every relationship is unique, consider these principles thoughtfully and seek individualized professional guidance when needed. If your relationship involves violence, intimidation, or you have concerns for your safety, please seek support from professionals who can help you assess your specific situation and address it appropriately.
40 min
July 28When People Feel Sorry for You Because of Your Marriage…Do You Feel Sorry For Yourself?
Why do some comments stay with you long after they're said? In this episode, I explore why other people's opinions can feel so personal.
And how understanding what's happening beneath the surface can help you respond differently.
Why certain comments affect us more deeply than others.
How to tell the difference between feeling understood and feeling defined by someone else's perspective.
A simple way to begin finding your footing when outside voices feel overwhelming.
This Week's Invitation
Think about a comment that's stayed with you longer than you'd like. Spend a few quiet moments asking yourself what made it feel so significant before deciding what you want to do with it.
Resources Mentioned
Complex Couples Coaching Workshop
➡️ Register here: https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/workshop
Connect
If this episode was meaningful to you, I'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review, or share it with someone who may need it. My hope is that these conversations help you navigate it all with greater clarity, courage, and compassion.
Interested in private coaching?
Learn more ➡ https://www.complexcouplescoaching.com/coaching-application
Join me on my YouTube channel Complex Couples Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/@complexcouplespodcast
Have questions?
Have a story to share?
Share your story with me here: complexcouplescoaching.com/questions
Email me at: [email protected] Your emails help shape future episodes. You don’t have to face this alone.
This podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not replace therapy, and it's not a substitute for professional mental health care. The examples I share are brief snapshots designed to illustrate a principle and may not apply to every situation. Because every relationship is unique, consider these principles thoughtfully and seek individualized professional guidance when needed. If your relationship involves violence, intimidation, or you have concerns for your safety, please seek support from professionals who can help you assess your specific situation and address it appropriately.
11 min

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Complex Couples Podcast

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