Season 5: Episode 32

Michael Passons, formerly of the iconic Christian group Avalon, joins me to tell the story behind the voice so many of us grew up hearing. In this episode, Michael shares how he got into Avalon, what it was like to be kicked out after being honest about being gay and the long road toward reclaiming his story. We talk about the cost of belonging in Christian music, the grief of being erased and the courage it takes to come back in your own name. Michael also opens up about publicly coming out and releasing a new version of Avalon’s biggest song, “Testify to Love.” This is a conversation about faith, exile, survival, and what it means to finally sing the truth.

Michael Passons

⁠⁠⁠⁠Everything Numa⁠

Season 5: Episode 32

Erica Smith is an award winning sexuality educator and consultant with 25 years of experience. She developed the Purity Culture Dropout™️ Program to help people learn all of the sex education that they missed growing up in purity culture- sex ed that is accurate, queer inclusive, trauma informed, compassionate, and comprehensive. She has since worked with hundreds of people to help them learn about healthy sexuality after high control religion and was named one of the Most Influential LGBTQ+ Leaders in 2025 by The Philadelphia Gay News. Throughout her career, she has provided comprehensive sex education and advocacy to young women and LGBTQ+ youth in Philadelphia’s juvenile justice system, worked in abortion care, and supported HIV positive youth, transgender adolescents, and their families. Erica is the author of The Purity Culture Recovery Guide: The Shame-Free Sex Ed You Deserve.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Everything Numa⁠

Erica Smith Website | Instagram |Threads

Season 5: Episode 31

In this episode, Mike brings Tyler Williamson back onto the show after interviewing him two years ago when he left ministry and came out. The two men have had very similar journeys and in this conversation, they talk about what the last few years out of the closet and out of Evangelicalism have been like.

⁠⁠⁠⁠Everything Numa

Tyler's Coming Out Interview

Tyler's interview about spiritual abuse and leaving the last ministry he worked for.

Season 5: Episode 30

Promise has a new book coming out called "Gospel of Lies!" In this episode, Mike and Promise talk about listening to worship music again after years of walking away from the Bethel world, what living in Finland has been like for Promise as an American and her new book.

Gospel of Lies: Pre-order

⁠⁠⁠Everything Numa

Season 5: Episode 29

In this episode, Scarlett Longstreet shares her journey navigating divorce and why she feels that everyone should get divorced.

Scarlett Longstreet: Substack | Instagram

⁠⁠Everything Numa

Season 5: Episode 28

Jen Tullock plays Devon in the Apple TV series "Severance." She's also queer and grew up in an Evangelical mega church in Kentucky. 

Jen found Mike on Instagram and they got to talking. In this episode, Jen shares her story of growing up in the Evangelical world as a queer woman, finding the love of her life and a peek into her life in acting.

⁠Everything Numa⁠

Jen Tullock: Instagram

See her show: Nothing Can Take You From the Hand of God

Season 5: Episode 27

In this episode, Mike talks with Dan McClellan about Christian Nationalism, biblical scholarship and the LDS church. He also asks questions his followers submitted for Dan to answer about the Bible.

Everything Numa

Dan McClellan: Instagram | YouTube | Book | Patreon

Mike interviews the man behind @jesusunfollower, Kevin Crowe. Kevin shares his journey of becoming an atheist and why he wants to link arms with Christians.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Everything Numa⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Kevin Crowe: Website | Instagram

Season 5: Episode 25

In this episode, Mike talks about the grief and sadness that many are finding in an America that seems to be moving away from individual rights and freedom.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Everything Numa⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Season 5: Episode 24

Mike recently visited his MAGA parents. In this episode, he shares his thoughts around their current and future relationship and how he is working to move forward.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Everything Numa⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠