In this episode of the Contested Ground podcast, Major General (Ret’d) Dr Marcus Thompson and Phil Tarrant are joined by Simon Bergman, CEO of M+C Saatchi World Services, to unpack the evolving landscape of grey zone warfare and the role of creative industries in modern conflict.

Drawing on decades of operational and commercial experience, Bergman explores how advertising expertise is being harnessed to support government information operations: crafting narratives, influencing audiences, and shaping perceptions in the contested information environment.

Thompson and Bergman discuss the cultural and operational divide between government and industry, and how M+C Saatchi World Services is bridging this gap through a hybrid team of former military personnel and creative professionals. Together, they examine how this model can enable faster, more effective responses in the grey zone.

The conversation also turns to the impact of artificial intelligence on information warfare. While acknowledging AI’s ability to enhance speed and reach, Bergman stresses the irreplaceable value of human insight in crafting authentic, effective messaging.

Finally, the team reflects on Australia’s information warfare capability, with Thompson calling for greater investment and deeper collaboration with industry to keep pace with adversaries operating below the threshold of open conflict.

Enjoy the podcast, The Contested Ground team