In this episode of All Things Co-op, Cinar, Larry, and Kevin talk to philosopher, podcaster, and Jacobin contributor Ben Burgis about his views on cooperatives and their relationship to socialism. Burgis and the ATC guys discuss the value of co-ops under a capitalist economy and in a socialist future, the need for political victories to advance socialist ideals, the role of debating those who don’t share your views, and possible paths forward towards a new cooperative society.