How do you bring playfulness, laughs, and lightness into your relationship? And why is it so important? This is the second episode of our "Core Relationship Principles" series. Chloe Urban and Neil Sattin cover exactly why it's so important to foster the fun in your relationship, and to not take everything so seriously. We also cover how to jumpstart this energy in those moments when it seems to have disappeared. You'll have some practical strategies for having more fun in your relationship.

132: Core Relationship Principles #2 - Finding Play, Humor, Fun, and Lightness - with Chloe Urban and Neil Sattin

Neil Sattin interviews John Gottman, Sue Johnson, Harville Hendrix, Peter Levine, Stan Tatkin, Dick Schwartz, Katherine Woodward Thomas, Diana Richardson, Terry Real, Wendy Maltz - and many others - in his quest to dig deep into all the factors that keep a Relationship Alive and Thriving! Each week Neil brings you an in-depth interview with a relationship expert. Neil is an author and relationship coach who is enthusiastic and passionate about relationships and the nuts and bolts of what makes them last. You can find out more about Neil Sattin and the Relationship Alive podcast at http://www.neilsattin.com

Society & Culture

Personal Journals

History

Philosophy

Places & Travel

Relationships

Health & Fitness

Mental Health

I stepped away from the Relationship Alive podcast for a "quick break" that was only supposed to last a month or two. That break became a journey of two and a half years, diving deep into questions about life, and meaning, and whether or not Relationship Alive should even continue. The journey also included a humbling exploration of where Relationship Alive might have gone wrong in those first 255 episodes. Nothing like hindsight to make certain things obvious!
Now I'm back to share with you some of the answers to those questions. What did I miss during all of those 255 episodes? Is there still a reason for Relationship Alive to exist? And, assuming the answer is yes (hint: it is), where are we going from here? Along the way, there are some personal reveals that just might help you make sense of it all - as it has for me.
I've missed you, and I'm happy to be back. Let's do this.

256 - Something Personal - Where I've Been and Where We're Going

It's easy to talk about being courageous - but how do you actually take action when it feels like a huge risk? Whether it's the decision to enter a relationship, or to leave a relationship, or all of the moments within a relationship when you might have to make a choice that feels a little edgy or scary - today's episode is going to focus on the practical steps to taking action...courageously. Don't just "feel the fear and do it anyway" - learn how to prepare yourself so that you stand the best chance of succeeding in a moment that requires your courage.
 As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the  Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it!
 Sponsors:
 GreenChef.com is a USDA certified organic company, with a wide variety of meal plans to make having healthier food easy and convenient for you. And they’re offering you $125 off plus free shipping- just to give them a try! Just visit GreenChef.com/alive125 and use the coupon code “alive125” at checkout for $125 off, and enjoy the delicious recipes and fresh ingredients that GreenChef sends your way.
 Find a quality therapist, online, to support you and work on the places where you’re stuck. For 10% off your first month, visit Betterhelp.com/ALIVE to fill out the quick questionnaire and get paired with a therapist who’s right for you.
 Want something new to entertain you? Acorn TV is a commercial-free streaming service that’s rooted in British television. It’s home to sophisticated and artful storytelling with top-rated mysteries, dramas that pull you in, heart-felt comedies and so much more. So - Escape to Britain and beyond without leaving your seat. Try Acorn TV free for 30 days, by going to acorn.tv and using the promo code “alive” (all lowercase) at checkout.
 Resources:
 Check out my Secrets of Relationship Communication COURSE for a masterclass in how to improve the communication and connection in your relationship.
 I want to know you better! Take the quick, anonymous, Relationship Alive survey
 FREE Guide to Neil’s Top 3 Relationship Communication Secrets
 Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner’s Needs) in Relationship (ALSO FREE)
 Support the podcast
 Amazing intro and outro music provided courtesy of The Railsplitters
 Transcript:
 Neil Sattin: So let's get on with this conversation about courage and how to actually be courageous. Now, the way I see it, courage is required before you get into a relationship, while you're in a relationship, and if you decide that you're going to leave the relationship, that requires courage too. Courage is required all the way through when you are, let's say, meeting people going out on dates, it may require courage for you to ask someone out and it may require courage for you to follow up with a the person, it might require courage for you to ask for what you want.
 Neil Sattin: There was recently a conversation happening in the Relationship Alive Facebook community, where someone was talking about how it's challenging to them, they've been going out with people who are spending all their time talking about themselves instead of asking any questions. So how do you show up in a situation like that? You might need to get courageous and be vulnerable or put the other person on the spot in order to ask for what you need, or conversely, it might take courage for you, even though someone else seems really into you, if you're not really into them, to put an end to your dating before it gets too serious, before it gets even more challenging to extricate yourself from a difficult and not entirely fulfilling situation. Now, when you're in a relationship, there are all kinds of places where courage is required, it might be required to set a boundary with another person, or again, to ask for what you want if you're not getting it, or to initiate a hard conversation.
 Neil Sattin: Like for instance, a conversation about something that you really want that you're not getting, just as an example, and then so often those challenging conversations might go a little bit off the rails or might not go exactly how you would want them to go, and it takes courage to follow up on those conversations rather than just letting things go and fostering resentment. It requires courage often to make a choice when the right decision isn't quite clear to you. It requires courage when you need to be honest with a person, even though it might hurt their feelings, and this kind of courage is really important for having relationships that are alive and authentic and where there is continually energy being generated to keep you excited and engaged in a relationship. It turns out that if you're not able to show up in those ways to be vulnerable, to take risks, then your relationship ends up being a big story of avoiding those things, and if you avoid the things that have lots of energy or juice to them, in one area, then it's likely that you're going to end up avoiding the energy and the juice in the areas that are more exciting, like your romance and your desire, and your sex, and your adventure and those kinds of things.
 Neil Sattin: The thing is though, it's easy to talk about being courageous. Yes, you have to be courageous. You have to feel your fear. You have to just move forward, but the reality is that that's super challenging. If it weren't challenging, it would be easy to do, we'd be doing it all the time, and I wouldn't be having this conversation with you, but there's more to it than simply being courageous. There are things that you can expect to happen within you and in a situation that requires your courage, and that's what we're going to talk about today, 'cause I want you to be able to prepare for an act of courage. I want you to have an understanding of what's going to happen. I want to set you up for the best possible outcome. And in the end, I want you to be able to take that experience and build on it, so that's...
 Interested in reading the transcript for the rest of this episode? 
  Click here to download the full transcript of this episode!

255: How to Be Courageous (especially when it's hard)

It's easy to talk about being generous in your relationship - but how do you actually put it into practice - especially when things feel unfair or out of balance? If you're stuck in fighting for fairness in your relationship, it's time to learn a new way of being together where shared success becomes the rule - not the exception. Today we're talking with Kaley and Nate Klemp, authors of "The 80/80 Marriage - A New Model for a Healthier, Stronger Relationship." You'll get practical steps to foster radical generosity in your relationship.
 As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the  Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it! Also, see below for links to our other episodes with Stan Tatkin.
 Sponsors:
 GreenChef.com is a USDA certified organic company, with a wide variety of meal plans to make having healthier food easy and convenient for you. And they’re offering you $125 off plus free shipping- just to give them a try! Just visit GreenChef.com/alive125 and use the coupon code “alive125” at checkout for $125 off, and enjoy the delicious recipes and fresh ingredients that GreenChef sends your way.
 Want something new to entertain you? Acorn TV is a commercial-free streaming service that’s rooted in British television. It’s home to sophisticated and artful storytelling with top-rated mysteries, dramas that pull you in, heart-felt comedies and so much more. So - Escape to Britain and beyond without leaving your seat. Try Acorn TV free for 30 days, by going to acorn.tv and using the promo code “alive” (lowercase) at checkout.
 Find a quality therapist, online, to support you and work on the places where you’re stuck. For 10% off your first month, visit Betterhelp.com/ALIVE to fill out the quick questionnaire and get paired with a therapist who’s right for you.
 Resources:
  Check out "The 80/80 Marriage" on Amazon
 Take a quiz, get more information about Nate and Kaley Klemp and their book, the 80/80 Marriage - by clicking here.
 FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide - perfect help for handling conflict and shifting the codependent patterns in your relationship
 Or...check out the Secrets of Relationship Communication complete course!
 Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner's Needs) in Your Relationship (ALSO FREE)
 Visit www.neilsattin.com/8080 to download the transcript to this episode with Nate and Kaley Klemp.
 Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out
 Transcript of this episode:
 Neil Sattin: Let's just start maybe with you're revealing a little bit of your personal journey, if you don't mind, getting a little vulnerable with, how did 8080 come to be for the two of you?
 Nate Klemp: Yeah, well, I guess it starts in high school actually, so Kaley and I grew up in the same town, and we met our senior year of high school, we were in chemistry class together, and we actually dated a little bit in high school, and then we both went to the same college, but broke up pragmatically and got back together seven years later, and it was almost like a fairy tale, Instagram-worthy story where we got back together in our early 20s, we got married, and we went into marriage thinking that the momentum of that perfect story, that fairy tale was just going to effortlessly continue and it didn't... Not at all. In fact, a couple of years in the marriage, I had a serious bike accident, which left me in a position of both having very little energy to work and complete Life's tasks, but also in a pretty serious depression, experiencing a lot of anxiety, and all of a sudden we were thrust into this conversation really more of a conflict over What is or isn't fair, and we started to see that for us and for most couples, we saw eventually that the fundamental thing we were grappling with is how can we be equals and in love, and that seemed to be a totally vexing question that we just could not answer in our marriage. So we really spent the then 15 years, we've been married for almost 16 years now, trying to answer that question, both for ourselves and then with this book for other couples.
 Neil Sattin: Yeah, and when you talk about how to be equals and be in love, that makes me think of what you mentioned in the initial part of your book where you talk about moving from what you call the 80/20 model of relationship into 50/50 relating, and then of course. You're making a case for the 80/80 model of relating. So yeah, can you describe what we're talking about, just kind of in simple terms, what's a 80/20 relationship... What's a 50/50 relationship? And where are we headed with 80/80?
 Kaley Klemp: 80/20 is looking back at sometimes our parents, sometimes our grandparents, where one person's "job" is to take care of the relationship and the other person gets to kind of coast, and in 80/20, based on gender norms at the time, typically it's the woman who's responsible for making sure that we're close and that we have date night, and that we have friends, and really, it's her job to make sure that the relationship is working at all, and as easy as it is to look at that with condemnation or disdain, there was an advantage at that point in time, which was, they were at least on the same team, pointed in the same direction, because they were really, really interdependent.
 Kaley Klemp: What happened though is as the '60s and '70s occur and women were given a lot more opportunity to work outside the home and pursue their own interests, there started to be a big shift where each person could look at 80/20 and say, "Gosh, that seems wildly unfair." And it was... And so they said, "You know what, we can do better. Let's make things even between us, let's make things equal, and the clunky technology was, Let's make things fair." And so that's where 50/50 came from, this idea that if we each do perfectly equal amounts of things, then somehow we'll end up in marital bliss, unfortunately, and we can talk about all the reasons why. 50/50 ended up being a recipe for even more fighting and even more conflict because finding that perfect midpoint where it was exactly fair seemed completely elusive. And so what we're striving for and arguing for is this notion of 80/80, where rather than keeping score and keeping track like you do in 50/50, instead you intentionally strive to overshoot the mean to do more than your "fair share" from this mindset of generosity. And with that new mindset, with this intentionality around how can I show up with generosity with my partner, what are the structures that support it, how can we take that mindset and make it really practical so that in real life, we can actually live it...
 Interested in reading the transcript for the rest of this episode with Nate and Kaley Klemp? 
 Visit neilsattin.com/8080 to download the full transcript of this episode!

254: From a "Fair" Relationship to Radical Generosity - the 80/80 Marriage with Kaley and Nate Klemp

How do you keep your relationship strong despite the pressures that child-rearing can create? And how can you leverage your attachment styles in how you show up for each other to improve your relationship along the way?  Our guests are Kara Hoppe and Stan Tatkin, co-authors of the new book "Baby Bomb: A Relationship Survival Guide for New Parents" - one of the few books that tackles the impact that raising a child can have on your connection. Whether you're expecting a new baby, or already have children in the mix, today's episode will give you the tools you need so that you can weather the storms of parenting while celebrating its joys.
 As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the  Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it! Also, see below for links to our other episodes with Stan Tatkin.
 Sponsors:
 Want something new to entertain you? Acorn TV is a commercial-free streaming service that’s rooted in British television. It’s home to sophisticated and artful storytelling with top-rated mysteries, dramas that pull you in, heart-felt comedies and so much more. So - Escape to Britain and beyond without leaving your seat. Try Acorn TV free for 30 days, by going to acorn.tv and using the promo code “alive” (lowercase) at checkout.
 Find a quality therapist, online, to support you and work on the places where you’re stuck. For 10% off your first month, visit Betterhelp.com/ALIVE to fill out the quick questionnaire and get paired with a therapist who’s right for you.
 Resources:
  Check out "Baby Bomb" on Amazon
 Get more information about Kara Hoppe and her offerings
 To learn about his trainings and retreats, visit Stan Tatkin's website
 Here are links to our other episodes with Stan Tatkin (prior to this one):
  Episode 19: Recipe for a Secure, Healthy Relationship
  Episode 50: Wired for Dating and Love - Psychobiology
  Episode 150: Attachment Styles and Relationship Repair
 FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide - perfect help for handling conflict and shifting the codependent patterns in your relationship
 Or...check out the Secrets of Relationship Communication complete course!
 Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner's Needs) in Your Relationship (ALSO FREE)
 Visit www.neilsattin.com/baby to download the transcript to this episode with Kara Hoppe and Stan Tatkin.
 Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out
 Transcript of this episode:
 Neil Sattin:  I think we've either seen it happen or maybe even experienced it ourselves, that the addition of a new life, a new being to a family can create big changes, and some of those changes are amazing and wonderful and life-enhancing, and some of those changes can feel almost cataclysmic. And so we are here today to talk about how to navigate a new edition to a family, whether it be a baby or adopting an older child, or even if you've had children in your life for a while and experienced the impact of children on your relationship. We're going to talk about how to steer your couple-ship in a way so that you can strengthen your relationship and strengthen with each other and with your children, and hopefully have a little bit more joy and a little less cataclysm. To have today's conversation, we have two very special guests: one is Kara Hoppe, who is a marriage and family therapist. And the other is Stan Tatkin who you may be familiar with from being on the show before, the author of, Wired in love and Wired for Dating among other books.
 Neil Sattin: And together they have written the book, Baby Bomb: A Relationship Survival Guide for New Parents. Because as we were chatting about before this interview started, there aren't many resources to help people not just navigate what's going on with a new baby, but actually navigate how that impacts their relationship and how to have a strong relationship, despite all the ways that the new addition or additions to your family might make the waters a little rocky. I don't know why I'm going with the boat metaphor today, but it's happened. [laughter] Kara Hoppe and Stan Tatkin, it's a pleasure to have you here today on Relationship Alive.
 Stan Tatkin: Thank you, Neil.
 Kara Hoppe: Happy to be here.
 Neil Sattin: Great, well, we're off to a good start. [laughter] So I sometimes like to do this, which is to start at the end, and in your book, Baby bomb, which is great by the way. You offer 10 guiding principles for how to help couples stay strong in their relationship, despite however having a child in their life may be impacting the relationship. And at the very last guiding principle that you have, I'm going to just read it verbatim here, I think I dog eared the page. Guiding principle 10: You and your partner parent and partner with sensitivity, respect and trust. And I wanted to start there because, for one thing, I'm not even sure people necessarily nail that down before a child comes along.
 Kara Hoppe: Right.
 Neil Sattin: And so much of getting things strengthened and resilient has to do with those very things, so I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about why those things are so important, sensitivity, respect and trust. And why their absence might lead to some of the common things that people experience when a new edition actually throws things into chaos.
 Kara Hoppe: Yeah, Neil, I love it that you started at the end, the last guiding principal. And I immediately when you were saying it, was thinking about the beginning of parenthood, when two people become parents, neither one of them really know what they're doing. They've never done it before. No aunt or uncle or godparent experience speaks to that. And so they're both learning in tandem how to do this, so it's a really vulnerable experience. So having that respect and sensitivity and trust in themselves and in their partner as they learn how to do this is so critical, right? I'm thinking about when we brought Jude home from the hospital, neither one of us knew how to burp him. And it's such a simple thing, but I didn't know how to burp a baby, nobody had taught me before. And I remember watching Charlie do it and feeling in my body like, Oh God, like fear and wanting to jump in. But then pausing 'cause I wanted to give him, the respect, like he was giving me the respect to learn how to do it. And all of that increased our participation in showing up for our son Jude, but it also made our relationship feel like a safer place for both of us to kind of fumble around learning how to be parents together and be witnessed as parents together.
 Neil Sattin: Yeah. Yeah, so much of what you talk about in the book has to do with battling in some ways the cultural expectations that we have, and I think some of that includes this assumption that you're somehow going to know what to do.
 Kara Hoppe: What they need. Right.
 Neil Sattin: And so I appreciate your highlighting that it's a very vulnerable act to suddenly have a child in your arms. Or If you're a step-parent, to find yourself with an older child potentially in front of you and to not necessarily know what to do. There are all these ways that we're fighting internal messages that we've gotten from culture, from family, etcetera.
 Kara Hoppe: Right. That idea of the maternal instinct kicking in. Like, yes and maternal instinct doesn't cover burping, it doesn't cover putting on diapers, it doesn't necessarily cover even breastfeeding. All of that has to be taught in real time, learning how to do it. And so there can be a lot of internal pressure because of that external pressure that if I don't know what I'm doing, I'm somehow failing, and that can be asseverated of course, we know like partners doing that to each other. And like, "Come here, I'll take the baby, I know how to do this." And just cutting each other down. And what Stan and I really wanted to do with Baby Bomb was to help people recognize the importance of supporting each other during this vulnerable experience and how they could do that with really practical ways, and we just wrote the book to walk people through that journey of how to show up for their relationship that way.
 Neil Sattin: Yeah. So lest we make any assumptions here about what sensitivity, respect and trust mean, can we do just kind of a quick breakdown of what you mean by sensitivity, what you mean by respect, what you mean by trust?
 Interested in reading the transcript for the rest of this episode with Kara Hoppe and Stan Tatkin? 
 Visit neilsattin.com/baby to download the full transcript of this episode!

253: How to Keep Children from Wrecking Your Relationship - The Baby Bomb with Kara Hoppe and Stan Tatkin

When you can't be yourself in your relationship and avoid the tough conversations that you might need to have, it erodes your relationship AND your sense of self. Today we're going to focus on how to lean into conflict in ways most likely to lead to deeper connection with others as well as inner alignment within yourself. Our guest is Jayson Gaddis, and his new book "Getting to Zero: How to Work Through Conflict in Your High Stakes Relationships" is a masterpiece to level up your conflict-resolution skills.
 If you’re curious to hear our first episode together, check out  Episode 129 - Unlocking the Secrets of the Smart Couple.
 And as always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the  Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it!
 Sponsors:
 Want something new to entertain you? Acorn TV is a commercial-free streaming service that’s rooted in British television. It’s home to sophisticated and artful storytelling with top-rated mysteries, dramas that pull you in, heart-felt comedies and so much more. So - Escape to Britain and beyond without leaving your seat. Try Acorn TV free for 30 days, by going to acorn.tv and using the promo code “alive” (lowercase) at checkout.
 Find a quality therapist, online, to support you and work on the places where you’re stuck. For 10% off your first month, visit Betterhelp.com/ALIVE to fill out the quick questionnaire and get paired with a therapist who’s right for you.
 Resources:
 Find out more about Jayson Gaddis's new book, Getting to Zero.
 Visit The Relationship School website for more information about Jayson, his podcast, and the courses and trainings that he offers.
 FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide - perfect help for handling conflict and shifting the codependent patterns in your relationship
 Or...check out the Secrets of Relationship Communication complete course!
 Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner's Needs) in Your Relationship (ALSO FREE)
 Visit www.neilsattin.com/zero to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Jayson Gaddis.
 Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out
 Transcript:
 Neil Sattin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Relationship Alive. This is your host, Neil Sattin. When it comes to the relationships in our lives that matter the most, I want you to sit there and think for a moment about whether or not you're willing to really get into it with those people. Are you willing to have conflict when you don't see eye to eye, when you have a disagreement, when you have a values conflict, when you're not sure who should be doing the dishes and who should be balancing a checkbook, whatever it is, are you actually willing to go toe to toe as equals with the other people in your life? And if so, how well does it go? And if not, why do you avoid it? These are important questions to be asking because the quality of our relationships is often not only determined by the quality of our connection with those people, but it's also determined by our ability to come back from challenging moments, the resilience of a relationship.
 Neil Sattin: And so for today's episode, I wanted to focus on that very thing. How do you work through conflict and create resilience, not only in yourself, not only fostering it in the other important people in your life, but how do you create a resilient relationship where you are able to be true to who you are, and where the person or people that you're in relationship with are also free to be true to who they are. And where somehow you manage to get through all of that, better for it, instead of in tatters because of your fights and inability to resolve them. So in order to have today's conversation, I wanted to feature Jayson Gaddis, who is the founder of The Relationship School, a colleague and friend of mine. He also does The Relationship School Podcast, and he is the author of this gem of a book called; Getting to Zero: How to Work Through Conflict in Your High-Stakes Relationships. If you're a long-time listener, you know that I read a lot of books for this show, and this book is a game changer. It is like you will be doing yourself a huge favor by getting this book, reading through it, working through the exercises, and...
 Neil Sattin: I don't often truly feel that way, like sometimes, when we're talking about a book here on the show, I'll go through it and I feel like actually, I can kind of mine what's important for you, this is one that I want you to get and go through, it's that important. And when you do, let me know what you think. Let's dive in to chatting with Jayson Gaddis about his new book, Getting to Zero and How to Work Through Conflict in Your High-Stakes Relationships. Jayson, it's such a treat to have you back here on Relationship Alive.
 Jayson Gaddis: Thanks Neil. So good to be chatting with you again and psyched to dive in.
 Neil Sattin: Great. Great. So let's get started by talking about why we tend to avoid conflict, and I just want to say when I was reading Getting to Zero, this book was very triggering for me like as I was reading it through, I was like every page I was dealing with my own demons percolating up, because the very first thing that you ask us as readers to do is to think about a conflict that we've had with someone who's important in our lives. And so it's helpful to do that, of course, to put all the exercises and everything that you write into contacts, that will be really helpful, but it was really challenging and I got in touch with how hard it is to actually face in to the fire. So could we start by talking a little bit about kind of why people avoid conflict and why you might want to make a different choice.
 Jayson Gaddis: Yeah, for sure. So I'll talk about two main reasons, and I'm sure you have many, and I'd love to hear those, but one is just in our biology, and it's the fact that we're social mammals and social mammals like to belong and we like to feel close to other people, and when we don't, it feels threatening and scary and shameful, and painful. And so conflict puts us up against that pain where it's like, "Ooh, if this doesn't go well, I might get kicked out of the group, I might not be included anymore or invited, this person might break up with me, I might break up with them." And that's uncomfortable, and social mammals don't like to be alone, and we don't do well on our own for long, long, long periods of time. So that's kind of in our DNA. And then there's the more psychological story about why we avoid conflict, and that's partly due to, it hasn't gone that well in our history, and that circles back to our family of origin, the neighborhood we grew up in, the friends we had or didn't have, the church we grew up in, sports teams we were on, or dance recitals we played, and all the negative experiences socially and relationally often don't get dealt with very well.
 Jayson Gaddis: And then they compound over time, and then we enter into an adult relationship, and we've got a lot of negative memory around conflict and negative associations, and so we tend to do what we've always done, and that's usually moving away from conflict, which is avoiding or we might move toward it thinking that fighting harder and louder and getting bigger is the solution for some reason. So I think those are the two probably biggest reasons we avoid conflict.
 Neil Sattin: Yeah, and conflict is uncomfortable. So you have to be in a space where you're willing to not only embrace that discomfort, but also, I think face your own discomfort with being uncomfortable, you have to look at why you would rather just check out and watch Netflix or pretend that something didn't happen or settle for whatever the situation is versus, Oh, it's actually really challenging to me to feel these feelings and to not know if there's going to be a positive outcome on the other side.
 Jayson Gaddis: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I like what you said there about just discomfort. It kind of boils down to that really, is a lot of us don't like feeling uncomfortable feelings, both emotionally and on a sensory level in our body, when we face off with another person or we have a trigger with a person, whether they're silent with us or aggressive with us. It's just so uncomfortable and people are like, Oh, you must really like conflict. I'm like, No, I do not like conflict. Let's be clear. Just like the next person, I just happen to have some tools and some ways through it that I've learned over the years...
 Interested in reading the transcript for the rest of this episode with Jayson Gaddis? 
  Click here to download the full transcript of this episode!

132: Core Relationship Principles #2 - Finding Play, Humor, Fun, and Lightness - with Chloe Urban and Neil Sattin

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