As the lockdown is approaching a soft end in Vienna, and continues in South Florida, Madhu and her discussion companion got together virtually once again to share unexpected effects and increased feelings of restlessness due to these uncertain times. These effects raised question about the meaning of happiness, noticing how some people prefer to choose the pain, which they know, over a happiness that is unknown to them. Why is it easier to turn to pain? Does growth have to stem from pain only? Listen and explore with us.