Mitch Joel in conversation with Jennifer Riel who co-authored Creating Great Choices: A Leader's Guide to Integrative Thinking along with Roger Martin.

They chat about the value of failing fast; why staying open to opposing, potentially uncomfortable perspectives may be the key to true integrative – and innovative - thinking; and, of course, how The Lego Movie does a good job of capturing the spirit of this book.

This is part of the 2018 National Business Book Award nominees podcast series.

Produced by Julia De Laurentiis Johnson for Church + State.