Dan Mall is a husband, dad, teacher, creative director, designer, founder, and entrepreneur from Philly. He runs Design System University, where he creates, collects, and curates curriculum, content, and community to help enterprise teams design at scale. Previously, Dan ran design system consultancy SuperFriendly for over a decade. Dan writes about design systems, process, and leadership and other issues on his site danmall.com, in his weekly newsletter, and on Twitter and Instagram.

We talk about Dan’s network-based model for Superfriendly, creating leveling and growth paths for freelancers, intentionality behind your freelance work lifestyle, his top two tips for new freelancers, figuring out what he wants as he continues his fractional journey, the commodification of designers in the advent of AI, figuring out your value, and a lot more.

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00:00 - “Work happens to you” vs. Intentionality
00:30 - What is Fractional?
00:52 - Who is Dan Mall?
01:21 - Topics Overview
01:57 - Dan introduces himself
02:50 - What is SuperFriendly?
03:59 - Dan’s superpower: Being a connector of people
04:40 - Daily networking habit
05:30 - I believe freelancers can simultaneously…
06:20 - The dichotomy of freelancing vs. working in a team
07:45 - Aligning incentives
08:38 - Matching opportunities to what people are good at
09:25 - How did Dan get where he is? What were his beliefs?
11:37 - Mental health as a 9-5 freelancer???
12:50 - The general zeitgeist = reaction mode
13:25 - I want the power dynamic to be in favor of the service provider
15:40 - I would rather ____ than sacrifice time with family
16:34 - How do you get to a position of privilege as a freelancer?
17:33 - One great thing anyone can do at any stage in their career
18:06 - No one can invalidate your journey
18:58 - Creating runway in order to do what I really want to do
20:47 - Shutting down SuperFriendly
22:49 - Dan’s new thing: Design System University
23:41 - Different people learn in different ways
24:41 - The Frequency Illusion Effect
26:00 - What are ways I can teach people in a more accessible way?
26:51 - What are you learning about yourself?
27:29 - 95% intrinsic motivation, 5% extrinsic motivation
28:00 - Wallpapers for my phone that say, “Are you having fun?”
29:14 - If you can’t even answer what you want…
29:46 - Facing your own reality
30:16 - Will AI replace our jobs?
30:48 - How AI works into design systems
31:30 - Craft vs. Commodity
32:55 - The hope despite commoditization
33:22 - ChatGPT lies
34:24 - ChatGPT is a remix machine
36:23 - Before you take away a job, figure out the replacement first
38:03 - AI will design for us. What do we do then?
39:06 - I’m seeking fun
39:36 - Message to freelancers and independent workers
40:13 - You’re not cheaper as a freelancer. You’re more valuable.
41:29 - Your value is so much more than “cheaper”