CX Files

CX Files Episode 436 – Randy Arellano, Founder, Ascent Growth Advisors, Dallas, Texas

AI is changing how companies research and select BPO partners. Buyers can now compare suppliers, investigate locations, and explore solutions long before they speak to a salesperson. So what does this mean for the future of BPO sales?

In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan introduce a conversation with Randy Arellano, founder of Ascent Growth Advisors and an experienced BPO sales leader.

Randy argues that AI is raising the bar for sales professionals. Relationships and personal networks still matter, but they are no longer enough. Buyers need experienced advisers who can challenge assumptions, diagnose problems, understand technology, and recommend solutions that deliver genuine business outcomes.

The discussion explores several important changes shaping the BPO sales team of the future:

• AI-informed buyers: Why salespeople need to offer more than information buyers can already discover through ChatGPT or Claude.

• Consultative selling: Why understanding the customer's real business problem is more valuable than simply offering contact centre capacity.

• Trust and relationships: How experienced salespeople can challenge assumptions and offer advice that may not always lead to an immediate sale.

• Better prospect qualification: Why ideal customer profiles and business trigger events matter more than building a large but poorly qualified pipeline.

• Cross-functional sales teams: Why solutions, operations, pricing, legal, and implementation teams must share responsibility for winning and delivering complex BPO deals.

• Sales and marketing alignment: How marketing teams can use insights from sales conversations to create evidence-based content that answers the questions buyers are actually asking.

• The shift to outcomes: Why salespeople must understand AI, automation, and outcome-based commercial models rather than focusing on headcount and traditional pricing.

Randy also explains why AI could make some previously uneconomic customer service decisions viable, including bringing high-value customer support back onshore.

The central message is clear: AI may transform the early stages of BPO procurement, but the ability to diagnose problems, build trust, and bring together the right expertise will define the most successful sales teams.

The sales team of the future will need to be more consultative, more technically fluent, and more closely integrated with the wider business than ever before.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/randyarellano/

CX Files Episode 435: Beyond FTEs – The Road to Outcome-Based BPO Pricing

Guest: Victor Manzanera, Founder and Principal Analyst, Scale Edge Group – Oslo, Norway

Everyone in the BPO industry is talking about outcome-based pricing, but how do we actually move away from charging for headcount and hours? And is the industry ready for such a fundamental change?

In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan explore the challenges of traditional BPO contracts before Mark interviews Victor Manzanera, founder of Scale Edge Group.

Victor has just published The Outcome-Based BPO Model, a 33-page report examining how BPO buyers and suppliers can gradually transition from traditional FTE pricing towards contracts that reward genuine business outcomes.

Key discussion points include:

• Evolution, not revolution: Why outcome-based pricing requires a gradual transition rather than an overnight replacement of FTE contracts.

• Rethinking KPIs: Why traditional performance metrics often have little connection to the business outcomes clients actually want.

• Sharing the rewards: How gain-sharing agreements and meaningful bonuses can encourage BPOs to improve efficiency, customer retention, and revenue.

• The AI incentive problem: Why headcount-based contracts can discourage automation and how new commercial models could accelerate AI adoption.

• Beyond pricing: Why achieving better outcomes may require different agent skills, training, technology, and operating models.

• Practical next steps: How buyers can start changing their BPO relationship immediately, even without renegotiating their entire contract.

Victor argues that the most important change is not simply how BPOs get paid, but how buyers and suppliers define success and work together to achieve it.

The central message: Stop buying people and hours. Start building partnerships focused on business results.

Victor's report, The Outcome-Based BPO Model, was published by Scale Edge Group on October 14, 2026, and is freely available through Scale Edge Group - link is below.

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/victor-manzanera/

https://www.scaleedgegroup.com/

https://www.scaleedgegroup.com/outcome-based-bpo-model

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/scale-edge-group_bpo-outsourcing-cx-activity-7516022738088640513-BHiE

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The discussion examined a gradual shift from FTE pricing to outcome-based BPO relationships, including incentives and prerequisites for adoption.

Hybrid Transition

• Victor argued that pricing and performance measurement can evolve separately: companies can keep FTE contracts while aligning KPIs and incentives to business outcomes.
• Buyers and BPOs need to agree on the company's actual objectives; excessive or conflicting operational KPIs can obscure results and limit BPO ownership.

Incentives and Readiness

• Bonuses tied to outcomes such as efficiency, first-contact resolution, revenue, or reduced churn can reward BPOs for improvements and support AI adoption.
• Transaction pricing is most viable with reliable volume forecasts, handle-time data, and contractual volume protections. How can companies without these prerequisites create aligned incentives while retaining FTE pricing?

This week, the CX Files turns the tables on co-host Peter Ryan. Ryan Strategic Advisory has just celebrated its tenth anniversary, so Mark Hillary interviews Peter about what he has learned from a decade of advising BPOs, enterprise buyers, governments, and CX leaders around the world.

Peter looks back at how the industry has changed since 2016 — from the growth of remote and hybrid work to automation, AI, employee experience, and the changing ways companies discover and select CX partners. He also explores the evolution of global delivery locations, including the continued strength of India, the Philippines, South Africa, Egypt, and Mexico, alongside the emergence of markets such as Colombia, Serbia, Kenya, Rwanda, and Ghana.

The conversation also tackles one of the biggest challenges facing CX today: separating genuine structural change from industry hype. Peter reflects on earlier predictions around IVR, RPA, remote work, and now AI, arguing that technology continues to transform the industry — but the human element remains central.

Finally, Peter shares some of the lessons he has learned from running an independent advisory business for ten years: the importance of visibility, relationships, investment, resilience, and being present in an industry that is still built around conversations, handshakes, and personal connections.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-ryan-montreal/

https://ryanadvisory.com/

https://ryanadvisory.com/2026/10/06/10-learnings-from-10-years-of-ryan-strategic-advisory/

In episode 433 of the CX Files, Mark Hillary talks to Victor Botto, Vice President for Business Development for Sub-Saharan Africa at TP, about why Kenya deserves far more attention as a global CX and BPO location.

Victor explains why Kenya's opportunity goes well beyond lower-cost customer service. They discuss the country's highly educated workforce, deep experience in fintech and tourism, its growing technology ecosystem, and the importance of an employee-first culture in building better customer experiences.

The conversation also explores the bigger African opportunity. Could establishing CX operations in Kenya give global companies not only a new delivery location, but also valuable experience and insight into one of the world's fastest-growing consumer markets?

Topics include: Kenya as an alternative global BPO hub, fintech and M-Pesa, tourism and hospitality expertise, the "Silicon Savannah" technology ecosystem, employee experience, talent development, and Africa's future consumer growth.

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/victorbotto/

https://www.tp.com/

https://theservicecontinent.substack.com/

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Kenya was presented as a high-value CX and BPO destination whose advantages extend beyond labor cost.

Strategic Position

• Victor described Kenya as a diversification option for companies facing saturation, rising costs, attrition, and talent competition in established hubs.
• Kenya offers a GMT+3 time zone, C1 English proficiency, cultural familiarity with Western markets, and a BPO career path viewed as desirable by graduates.

Sector Expertise

• Digital experience with M-Pesa supports fintech and digital-wallet service operations through lived understanding of payment issues.
• Tourism and hospitality experience supports empathetic, flexible customer service for airlines and travel companies.
• Nairobi's technology ecosystem includes engineering, cloud, automation, AI data operations, fintech, and software development capabilities. li>ol]:list-[lower-alpha] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[lower-roman] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[list-decimal] [&_[data-user]]:text-primary [&_:is(pre)]:overflow-auto [&_:is(table)]:w-full [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-collapse [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-gray-300 [&_:is(table,th,td)]:p-2 [&_:is(strong,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:font-semibold [&_:is(h1)]:text-2xl [&_:is(h2)]:text-lg [&_:is(h3)]:text-md [&_h1:not(:first-child)]:mt-8 [&_h1:not(:last-child)]:mb-6 [&_h2:not(:first-child)]:mt-6 [&_h2:not(:last-child)]:mb-4 [&_h3:not(:first-child)]:mt-4 [&_pre]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_pre>code]:bg-transparent [&_pre>code]:px-0 [&_pre>code]:py-0 [&_pre]:px-[6px] [&_pre]:py-[2px] [&_pre]:m-0 [&_pre]:rounded-[4px] [&_code]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_code]:px-[6px] [&_code]:py-[2px] [&_code]:m-0 [&_code]:rounded-[4px] [&_blockquote]:m-0 [&_blockquote]:px-[16px] [&_blockquote]:py-0 [&_blockquote]:text-subtle [&_blockquote]:border-l-[4px] [&_blockquote]:border-palette-gray-200 overflow-x-auto [&_ol]:pl-5 [&_li]:my-2 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:first-child)]:mt-3 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:last-child)]:mb-3" data-testid="render-markdown"> Open Questions
  • How quickly can Kenya build market awareness, delivery capacity, specialized accreditation, and infrastructure to compete with mature hubs?
  • Can companies use Kenyan operations as a platform for broader growth in African consumer markets through the Africa Continental Free Trade Area?

Brian Riback is the CMSWire 2025 Contributor of the Year. Brian is a strategic leader with over 20 years of experience as a CRM and retention specialist. He ias based in New Jersey, USA.

In June 2026, Brian published a detailed article exploring how brands can build trust in the era of AI discoverability. The article was titled "How CMOs Build Brand Trust Across AI Search, Agents and Answer Engines." In this conversation with Mark Hillary, Brian describes his ideas around how to operationalise trust - a process he calls TrustOps after a paper by Andrew Frank from Gartner.

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For over two decades CMSWire, produced by Simpler Media Group, has been the world's leading community of customer experience professionals.

Today the CMSWire community consists of over 5 million influential customer experience, customer service and digital experience leaders, the majority of whom are based in North America and employed by medium to large organizations.

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianriback/

https://www.cmswire.com/

https://www.cmswire.com/author/brian-riback/

https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/how-cmos-build-brand-trust-across-ai-search-agents-and-answer-engines/

https://www.gartner.com/en/experts/andrew-frank

Summary:

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• AI tools increasingly influence how buyers discover and evaluate B2B providers.
• Visibility alone is insufficient; companies must control the credibility and context surrounding their brand.

Content and Websites

• Content should identify its author, publication timing, sources, and relevant questions.
• Websites should validate AI-generated recommendations with use cases, case studies, testimonials, trust indicators, and accessible human support.
• AI-generated content can assist production, but authority depends on original expertise and evidence rather than volume.

Trust Operations

• A proposed trust-operations function would coordinate marketing, communications, PR, legal, IT, and cybersecurity.
• The group would create playbooks and manage risks affecting brand representation across AI systems.

Measurement and Alignment

• Brian recommended emphasizing qualified leads, pipeline movement, conversion, and nurturing rather than impressions or unmeasurable awareness.
• Marketing and sales should share revenue accountability while maintaining clearly defined roles.

Current Work

• Brian is developing Version Lab, a tool for creating audience-specific versions of ads and emails, and continuing his writing for CMSWire.

In this episode of the CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan look at the changing European nearshore landscape before Peter talks to Jeton Aliu, Founder and CEO of Olymp BPO in Pristina, Kosovo.

Jeton explains why Kosovo is becoming an increasingly important CX and BPO delivery location. He discusses the rapid growth of the local outsourcing industry, the availability of a young and multilingual workforce, and Kosovo's particular strength in languages including German and English.

The conversation also explores the growth of delivery beyond Pristina, government support for the industry, and the biggest challenge still facing Kosovo: building greater international awareness and trust as a serious European outsourcing destination.

Mark and Peter also discuss how the traditional European nearshore model is changing, as countries once viewed primarily as outsourcing locations increasingly become consumer markets themselves — creating a much more complex European CX delivery landscape.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jetonaliu8/

http://olympbpo.com/

https://kiesa.rks-gov.net/

Summary:

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Kosovo was presented as a growing, multilingual European nearshore BPO destination with strong potential but limited global awareness.

Industry Growth

• The BPO sector has expanded significantly since the early 2010s, with approximately 20,000 professionals across more than 120 companies.
• BPO and ITO reportedly generated more than $2.3 billion in 2025 and 2026, becoming a major contributor to economic growth and youth employment.
• Pristina is the primary hub, while Prizren, Peja, Ferizaj, and Gjilan have growing delivery centers.

Competitive Advantages

• Kosovo offers English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Norwegian, Danish, and other language capabilities.
• German and English are especially competitive, supported by diaspora connections and multilingual education beginning in childhood.
• The country is described as safe, accessible, cost-competitive, and supported by government grants for newly formed BPOs.

Growth Challenges

• How can Kosovo increase international market awareness and build trust with prospective buyers?
• Yeton identified recognition and education about Kosovo's BPO capabilities as the main challenges to industry maturation.
• KIESA, the Kosovo Investment and Enterprise Support Agency, was identified as a source of additional information.

In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary talks to Matt Fry, SVP for AI, CX and Digital Transformation at eClerx and publisher of The CX Marketplace, about why culture cannot simply be outsourced.

Inspired by Matt's Substack article Culture Cannot Be Outsourced, the conversation explores why successful CX partnerships require shared responsibility between clients and BPO providers. They discuss culture during the RFP process, employee engagement and attrition, the importance of client involvement, and how relationships can move beyond SLAs and penalties toward shared ownership of the customer experience.

Matt also explains why culture may be even more important as AI, automation and agentic technologies reshape customer service.

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Culture Cannot Be Outsourced

https://thecxmarketplace.substack.com/p/culture-cannot-be-outsourced

The CX Marketplace

https://thecxmarketplace.substack.com/

https://eclerx.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewefry/

Summary:

Matt explains why creating a successful BPO relationship requires a shared 50-50 responsibility for culture between the client and the service provider.

Cultural Partnership

Matt Fry argues that corporate culture in contact centers cannot be outsourced and must be a collaborative effort between the BPO and the client. While it is common to assume the BPO is solely responsible for maintaining a positive environment, Matt suggests that clients must actively participate to ensure deep engagement.

• Clients should focus on transferring "why" something matters rather than just transferring technical processes or product knowledge.
• Effective integration involves leadership from both sides engaging with the operational environment to build mutual purpose.
• A lack of client engagement can lead to employees feeling like anonymous resources, especially as AI and automation make work more transactional.

Strategic Procurement

Matt notes that traditional RFP processes often fail to capture cultural compatibility because they focus on static values rather than dynamic behaviors. To find true partners instead of transactional vendors, companies must reframe their selection criteria.

• Questions should focus on how organizations will solve problems together when performance falls short.
• The goal is to assess whether both parties are willing to modify their operating models to support long-term collaboration after the contract is signed.

Governance Evolution

Transitioning from a vendor-client relationship to a partnership requires shifting governance away from pure metric monitoring toward shared outcomes. Matt highlights that relying solely on SLAs, targets, and penalties keeps a relationship stuck in a transactional state.

• Meetings should move beyond discussing missed targets or service credits to address customer insights and avoidable demand.
• Trust is built incrementally when a supplier identifies risks early and brings innovative solutions rather than just focusing on the scorecard.

How can cost-sensitive sectors balance the expense of cultural integration with the high costs of attrition caused by poor culture?

Peter Ryan talks to Andrew Kokes, Chief Marketing Advisor at Pivot AI Global, about how AI is fundamentally changing B2B marketing and sales.

As buyers increasingly use ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude and other AI platforms to research suppliers and build shortlists, traditional search engine visibility is no longer enough. Andrew explains why companies now need to think about AI discoverability — ensuring that answer engines understand who they are, what they do, and why they should be recommended.

The conversation explores why clear positioning and a well-defined niche matter more than ever, how websites need to evolve from digital brochures into machine-readable knowledge bases, and why credible third-party articles, analyst coverage and customer reviews can influence whether AI recommends a business.

For CX and BPO providers, especially smaller and emerging companies, the message is simple: doing great work is no longer enough. You also need to make sure the machines know about it.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewkokes/

https://www.pivotaiglobal.com/

Mark Hillary's book "If AI Can't See You, You Don't Exist"

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H4Q9VMPP

Summary:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the evolving landscape of customer experience (CX) and business process outsourcing (BPO) with Andrew Kokes, Chief Marketing Advisor for Pivot AI Global. They explore the concept of discoverability, emphasizing the shift from traditional Google searches to AI-driven answer engines like ChatGPT and Gemini. Kokes highlights the importance of clear positioning, consistent messaging, and third-party validation for smaller BPOs to remain relevant. He also stresses the need for a modern digital strategy that caters to both AI and human audiences, including maintaining up-to-date, accessible content. The conversation underscores the necessity for a fundamental rethink in marketing strategies to adapt to AI's impact on search and discovery.

CX Files will return on September 3, 2026.

Enjoy the summer!

Mark & Peter

LinkedIn Has Lost the Plot — Can the CX Community Fix It?

LinkedIn was once the essential networking platform for business professionals, but today it can feel overwhelmed by sponsored posts, algorithmic recommendations, automated sales messages and bland AI-generated content. Even genuine attempts to connect and start conversations are increasingly met with silence or suspicion.

Peter Ryan talks to Simma Kularatna, Head of New Business at Interact Contact Centres, about why LinkedIn has become so difficult to navigate and whether it can still deliver value for the CX community. Drawing on her experience of spending several hours each day using the platform, Simma explores how professionals can rebuild trust, create more authentic content and turn passive connections into meaningful business relationships.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/skularatna/

https://interactcc.com/

Summary:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the relevance and challenges of LinkedIn for the CX community. They reflect on the platform's evolution, noting an increase in AI-generated content and sponsored posts, which dilutes the quality of engagement. Simma Kularatna, from Interact Contact Centres, joins to discuss the decline in genuine connections and relationships on LinkedIn. She emphasizes the need to rebuild trust and engage authentically, suggesting proactive commenting and creating a dedicated CX leaders page. They agree on the importance of LinkedIn for professional networking and advocate for a return to its original purpose of building meaningful business relationships.