How much incentive does a smallholder need in order NOT to knock down a  tree? And, what will be the role of businesses and governments to make sustainable palm oil the norm? Listen to Darrel Webber, a native from Malaysian Borneo, and ex-RSPO Secretary General. But also a smallholder himself.  In this podcast, he shines his precision light from all these perspectives on the sustainability challenges around one of the world's most (im)popular crops.