This is a short exchange - fifteen minutes - from a ninety-five-minute interview, I did with Dave in 2002 for the Irish newspaper, the Sunday Independent. I did nearly 400 such interviews and in all, I set out to find people who had travelled through dark times, endured and in some cases had epiphanies. I hope that might help readers. I have put the best in an eBook called From Darkness to Light, this podcast focuses on mostly Dave talk g about the deaths of his mother and father, but, as an aside, I also refer to the trauma of finding my father dead from a fall when he was only 49 years old.