Episode 22: David Frum, On Trumpocracy

Show Notes

David Frum (@davidfrum) is a senior editor at the Atlantic Magazine and a frequent contributor at MSNBC. He is a former speechwriter for George W. Bush and is known for coining the phrase “axis of evil.” He has been a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a contributor at the National Review. He is the author of nine books including most recently Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic, which we discuss today.

Selected Quote

Chris Martin: How do you currently define conservatism?

David Frum: Conservatism fundamentally is a habit of mind. It’s a mental disposition and it’s connected to the constitution of the individual mind. We also use the word “conservatism” to describe a particular ideology and what has happened in the United States in recent years is that definition has frozen, and what we now call “movement conservatism” is an anthology of policy solutions to the problems of the 1970s and 1980s. As it has become more obsolete, conservatives have lost interest in policy and what we now call conservatism has become a series of oppositional attitudes to what’s going on in the culture. I call them attitudes because they don’t really have content.

Transcript

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Chris Martin: My guest today is David Frum. He’s a senior editor at the Atlantic Magazine and a frequent contributor at MSNBC. He’s a former speechwriter for George W. Bush. and is known for coining the phrase “axis of evil.” He has been a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a contributor at the National Review. He And he is the author of nine books including most recently Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic, which we’ll discuss today. So here is David Frum.

Chris Martin: Hi David. It’s great to have you on the show.

David Frum: Thanks so much, Chris.

Chris Martin: Before we get to your new book, which is why I invited you here, I would like to talk to you about the definition of conservatism in general. It’s something you’ve talked about in recent interviews. How do you currently define conservatism?

David Frum: Look, conservatism fundamentally is a habit of mind. It’s a mental disposition and you’ve done work on this that it’s connected to the constitution of the individual brand. We also use the word “conservatism” to describe a particular ideology and what has happened in the United States in recent years is that definition has frozen and what we now call “movement conservatism”. It’s an anthology of policy solutions to the problems of the 1970s and 1980s.

As it has become more obsolete, conservatives have lost interest in policy and what we now call conservatism has become a series of oppositional attitudes to what’s going on in the culture. I call them attitudes because they don’t really have content. There’s a perfect demonstration of this.

You and I were talking over the weekend in which a Trump-North Korea summit has been first on, then off, then on again. At each of these somersaults, the people who call themselves conservatives have applauded the wisdom of precisely what the president and his administration are doing.

First one way, then the exact opposite, then the first way again. That tells you there’s not a lot of policy content there.