Join us as we have a discussion with Pastor and Author Karl Vaters. Over the next two weeks, we will discuss how to measure success in the church apart from numbers, how to create healthy churches, and how we as leaders can focus on discipleship in the midst of doing church.

Pastor Karl’s books, articles, and other resources can be accessed at his website here.

As always, if you would like to reach out to the podcast for encouragement, or to give ideas and feedback, you can contact the host Joe Epley at [email protected]