Is sales & marketing alignment harder than ever? (Part 2/2)

Summary: In this episode of 'Dear Marketers,' Host Emily Kramer and her friends Devon Watts, Head of Product Marketing and Partnerships at Mercury, and Grace Erickson, VP of Revenue at Cocoon, tackle the often intense topic of sales and marketing alignment. The discussion dives deep into the complexities of aligning these critical go-to-market functions. Together, they discuss the impact of Account-driven GTM, the role of centralized Rev Ops teams, the nuanced debate over variable compensation for marketers, and the evolving use of AI tools. This episode is part 2 of 2, listen to Episode 5 for part 1. It offers actionable insights and strategic recommendations for driving greater synergy between sales and marketing teams.

Dear Marketers is produced by MKT1 & Caspian Studios in partnership with Typeform. Episode 6 is sponsored by Framer and UserEvidence.

About our hosts

Emily Kramer is the creator of MKT1 Newsletter, a marketing advisor, and an investor. She previously led and built marketing teams from the ground up at Asana, Carta, Astro (acquired by Slack), and Ticketfly. She’s helped hundreds of startups with B2B marketing, has over 50,000 subscribers on Substack, and has reached millions through her content. Kramer’s known for her pragmatic advice, first principles approach to marketing, and her “krameworks”. When not marketing “marketing”, you can find her with her dogs in Oakland, CA or eating ice cream on the shores of Lake Winnipesaukee.

Devon Watts is a long-time startup marketer currently leading Product and Partner Marketing at Mercury. Previously, she ran marketing for the high-growth fintech Anrok, and spent time building her PMM, content, and brand expertise at companies like Yammer, Asana, and Carta. Devon has led B2B marketing teams with anywhere from 1 to 25+ people, and has experience in PLG and sales-led motions. In addition to marketing, Devon loves her kids, being on/in/near the water, her dog Dolores, and eating cheese.

Grace Erickson is a true marketing generalist with 10 years of experience in B2B startups, spanning functions like growth, brand, product marketing, and most things in between. She's currently the VP of Revenue at Cocoon, a Series A employee leave management platform. Prior to Cocoon, Grace led marketing programs at Asana, Carta, and Cleo in various roles, but always with a focus on an integrated customer journey. Besides being a marketing nerd, Grace spends her time coming up with (but not executing) elaborate schemes and browsing Zillow.

We also hear from Kira Luscher, Head of Marketing & Growth at Valence, the widest deployed AI-native coach for enterprise, who asks us “How can sales and marketing get aligned in 2025?”

Quotes

*”I actually think the whole thing is broken if I'm really getting into it. I think marketing rules no longer make sense. I think the delineations make no sense. I think the marketing and sales breakdown doesn't make any sense anymore. I think we need to burn it all down and rebuild the org. And I think that is going to happen slowly. But if I was building a company from scratch and building a go-to-market team from scratch, I would do it radically differently from how it is done. And I think the companies that are doing that and rethinking how it's done are going to win, because the systems are different and the teams need to be different. And that is how radical or extreme I think the shifts are to this.” - Emily Kramer

*”It hurts when teams are pointing fingers, trying to take credit, trying to over-claim influence and game the system. It especially hurts when compensation specifically for SDRs has a lot to do with outbound meetings booked. And I think that's where good attribution systems fail, because people think that attribution and how people's commission is being figured out is the same thing. And it's not like your attribution system can actually be different for how you're paying variable comp. Now, you need to know what the numbers are. But the attribution needs to be more fluid and you need to not get people stressed out about it. I was talking to the CEO of a popular go-to-market tech company and she was like, ‘I don't care if I double count or double pay commission. It probably comes out in the wash. And either way, I just don't wanna create those battles.’ And so that's a really good principle.” - Emily Kramer

Time stamps

[01:10] Meet Devon Watts, Head of Product Marketing & Partnerships at Mercury and Grace Erickson, VP of Revenue at Cocoon

[01:41] Revisiting Question from Kira Luscher, Head of Marketing & Growth at Valence: “How can sales and marketing get aligned in 2025?”

[03:00] Help or Hurt Segment: ABX Model

[04:43] The Complexity of Tiers in ABX

[09:51] Attribution: Help or Hurt?

[13:04] Shared Pipeline Goals

[26:45] The Role of Marketing Ops

[27:43] The Role of Rev Ops in Marketing and Sales

[28:59] Marketing Ops and Career Pathing

[31:54] Variable Compensation in Marketing

[39:32] The Impact of AI Tools on Marketing Alignment

Recommended products & agencies

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Caspian Studios

Connect with: 

Emily Kramer

Devon Watts,

Grace Erickson

Kira Luscher

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