How do we understand the ecological role of fire? What does "catastrophic fire" mean? How have fire suppression and climate change contributed to the types of wildfires we are seeing ever more frequently? When should one let a fire burn? Fire scientist Rod Linn and journalist Kyle Dickman know catastrophic fires first hand. One makes sophisticated, computationally intensive models of fires; the other used to fight as a hotshot fire fighter them and now writes about them.

Archaeologist Robert L. Kelly is the author of The Fifth Beginning: What Six Million Years of Human History Can Tell Us about Our Future. He looks at four world-changing inventions of humankind – technology, culture, agriculture, and the state – each of which contained the seeds of the next, and then looks at the archaeological record that our society is creating to hypothesize a fifth phase of human existence. And it's one that might make our present time look positively prehistoric!

Kelly is a brilliant thinker and his short, wonderfully written book offers the imagination of a better society that is grounded not just in hope but in the logic of archaeology.

Archaeologist Robert L. Kelly is the author of The Fifth Beginning: What Six Million Years of Human History Can Tell Us about Our Future. He looks at four world-changing inventions of humankind – technology, culture, agriculture, and the state – each of which contained the seeds of the next, and then looks at the archaeological record that our society is creating to hypothesize a fifth phase of human existence. And it's one that might make our present time look positively prehistoric!

Kelly is a brilliant thinker and his short, wonderfully written book offers the imagination of a better society that is grounded not just in hope but in the logic of archaeology.

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Marc Sageman Unabridged by Deep Science Radio

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