On this special episode of the Ledger Podcast, recorded live at Ledger Op3n in Paris, Head of Brand Development Mo EL-SAYED sits down with two Australian Rugby legends, Matt Giteau and Drew Mitchell (co-hosts of Kick Offs and Kick Ons and our new Australian Ambassadors).

This episode is all about value, risk, and rewriting the rules. Matt and Drew share the story of their game-changing move to France in 2011—a move that fundamentally altered the landscape of Australian rugby and led to the creation of the famous Giteau Law. They discuss how that spirit of taking control, betting on yourself, and proving your value on your own terms mirrors the ethos of digital ownership.

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