The abolition movement has hit the mainstream, and calls to disarm, defund, and dismantle the system as we know it have never been louder. Rinaldo Walcott, author of "On Property," joins Pippa and Karina to imagine a world without police or prisons, discuss the problem of property, and decode the language of reform.

Rinaldo Walcott is the director of the Women and Gender Studies Institute at the University of Toronto and the author of "On Property" (Biblioasis, 2021).

If you're interested in reading more on the topic of abolition, Rinaldo's recommended booklist includes, "We Do This 'til We Free Us," by Mariame Kaba; Golden Gulag by Ruth Wilson Gilmore; and "Are Prisons Obsolete?" by Angela Davis.

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