In this episode, Soren interviews veteran game developer Jon Ingold, who co-founded inkle and is best known for his work in interactive fiction, including All Roads, 80 Days, and the Sorcery! series. They discuss how to get the player to trust the designer, why pursuing fairness can take away what is special about a game, and whether packing should be done in real-time.

Games discussed: Creature of Havoc, The Sorcery! series, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, 80 Days, Heaven’s Vault, The Last Express