Developing Meaning

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What happens when a psychedelic experience meant to be healing becomes frightening, destabilizing, or even traumatic? In this episode, I speak with naturopathic physician Dr. Erica Zelfand about the promise and risks of psychedelic medicine, informed consent, preparation and integration, and what can happen when psychedelic experiences go wrong.

But our conversation ranges much further—from Erica’s family experience with chronic illness and her path into naturopathic medicine to her own experience being drawn into a cult and what she learned about autonomy, trust, and healing. We explore the importance of community, the sometimes-blurry boundaries between healing and harm, and how Erica’s personal and professional experiences have shaped her understanding of medicine, psychedelics, and meaning.

In this episode:

• What naturopathic doctors actually do—and how Erica found her way into the field
• Psychedelic access, safety, and the “right to heal”
• PARQ and the importance of meaningful informed consent
• Why preparation matters in ketamine and other psychedelic experiences
• Trust, safety, and the role of community in retreats and integration
• Erica’s family experience with chronic illness and how it shaped her understanding of healing
• Her experience being drawn into a cult—and helping cult survivors rebuild a sense of self
• Coming “out of the psychedelic closet” as a medical professional
• Practical therapeutic tools for psychedelic preparation and integration
• How psychedelic experiences themselves can become traumatic
• Meaning, parenthood, autonomy, and allowing other people to find their own paths

Timestamps

0:00 — Welcome & the Search for Meaning
3:55 — What Naturopathic Doctors Actually Do
7:01 — When an Itch Signals a Life
16:20 — The Right to Heal & Safe Psychedelic Access
20:57 — Informed Consent with PARQ
22:48 — Ketamine Done with Preparation
24:26 — Retreats Built on Trust
30:09 — Integration & Why Community Matters
36:08 — Family Roots & Chronic Illness
40:53 — Getting Pulled Into a Cult
49:22 — Helping Cult Survivors Rebuild Self
51:16 — From Literature to Naturopathic Medicine
55:47 — Coming Out of the Psychedelic Closet
59:29 — Therapy Tools for Preparation & Integration
1:03:49 — Traumatic Psychedelic Experiences Explained
1:14:26 — Meaning, Parenthood & Autonomy
1:19:54 — Resources, Substack & Farewell

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Developing Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.

Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz.

Developing Meaning is produced by Sophie Chen, Anya Kleinlein, and Dirk Winter, and is a production of Consilient Mind LLC.

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This episode is a companion to my conversation with Chris Burris, creator of Healing Circles. After learning about his approach to bringing Internal Family Systems into group therapy, I traveled to Asheville, North Carolina, to experience it for myself.

Over five days, I recorded an audio diary as the experience unfolded — reflecting on what was happening inside me, what was happening within the group, and what I was learning about the power of intentional community. You’ll hear about parts work, group “sculpting,” vulnerability, connection, and the surprising ways a group of strangers can begin to become a healing community.

These are not reflections reconstructed months later. They are my thoughts recorded in the midst of the experience — an attempt to take you with me as I explore a question I’ve become increasingly curious about:

How much of healing happens not just within us, but between us?

Timestamps

0:00 — Why This Audio Diary Exists
2:07 — The Drive To Asheville
3:43 — First Day Norms And Intentions
5:41 — Day Four Fatigue And Doubt
12:22 — Woo Woo Meets Neuroscience
16:35 — My Sculpt And What Changed

Learn more about Chris Burris

Website: www.burriscounseling.com — trainings, workshops, and resources

Book: Creating Healing Circles: Using the Internal Family Systems Model in Facilitating Groups

Subscribe to the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter for updates and behind-the-scenes reflections.

Developing Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.

Developing Meaning is produced by Sophie Chen, Anya Kleinlein and Dirk Winter and is a production of Consilient Mind LLC. Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz. 

Send us Fan Mail

In this episode, I sit down with Chris Burris — senior lead IFS trainer, trauma therapist, and creator of Healing Circles — after spending five days at his home in Asheville, North Carolina participating in one of his experiential trainings. We explore how Chris brought Internal Family Systems into group therapy and how community can become not simply a source of support, but an active part of the healing process. We dig into intention setting, commitment, group “sculpting,” unburdening, and how an intentional community can help us revisit deeply held beliefs about ourselves and other people.

This interview is followed by an audio diary taking you inside my own Healing Circles experience.

In this episode:

• Chris Burris’s path from family systems work to long-term trauma therapy
• A near-death experience and early experiences that shaped his spiritual curiosity
• Why IFS understands the mind as a system of parts, protectors, and exiles
• Moving from “integration” toward becoming a happier inner family
• What unburdening looks like — and how the body can let go
• How a childhood wound around dyslexia can create a lifelong belief
• What “intentional community” means — and why it matters for healing
• How Healing Circles begin with intentions, commitment, and desired outcomes
• The sacred-item commitment and the importance of staying with the group
• “Sculpting” as a live, experiential map of our internal system
• Reworking the belief that other people are dangerous and unpredictable
• Meaning as fully experiencing life while connecting with other people and nature

Timestamps

00:00 — Welcome: Why Groups Can Heal
05:36 — Introducing Chris Burris & Healing Circles
07:35 — Chris’s Career in Trauma Therapy
15:09 — His Mother’s Illness, Near-Death Experience & Spiritual Curiosity
21:16 — How Different Perceptions Shaped His Path as a Healer
24:49 — The Consultation With Richard Schwartz That Changed His Work
27:56 — IFS: Parts, Protectors & Exiles
36:03 — Dyslexia & Unburdening the “I’m Not Smart” Belief
40:28 — Men’s Circles, Mentors & Intentional Community
44:45 — How Healing Circles Begin: Intentions & Commitment
51:25 — Sacred Objects & Committing to the Group
55:04 — “Sculpting” the Internal System With Other People
59:38 — Healing Relational Trauma: Reworking the Belief That People Are Dangerous
1:03:00 — Meaning & Compassionate Presence
1:09:04 — Chris’s Billboard Advice: Make Time for Nature

Learn more about Chris Burris

Website: www.burriscounseling.com — trainings, workshops, and resources

Book: Creating Healing Circles: Using the Internal Family Systems Model in Facilitating Groups

Subscribe to the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter for updates and behind-the-scenes reflections.

Developing Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.

Developing Meaning is produced by Sophie Chen, Anya Kleinlein and Dirk Winter and is a production of Consilient Mind LLC. Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz. 

Send us Fan Mail

This episode is a companion audio diary to my interview with Ted Riskin, recorded while participating in one of his five-day Internal Family Systems (IFS) ketamine-assisted group retreats in Asheville, North Carolina. Over the course of the retreat, I recorded stream-of-consciousness reflections into my iPhone each day as I moved through group process, ketamine journeys, hikes in the mountains, and conversations about healing, anger, meaning, and inner balance.

This episode is more personal and less structured than my usual interviews. Part field journal, part psychological exploration, it captures what it feels like to enter one of these increasingly popular healing environments.

Timestamps

0:00 - Audio Diary Retreat Setup
1:55 - Meeting The Group And The Method
4:19 - Setting Intentions For Inner Balance
5:16 - First Ketamine Journey And Comeback
10:32 - Integration Plus Hikes And Workday
13:14 - Anger Work And Nature Reset
15:14 - Lower Dose Insights And Next Steps

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Developing Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.

Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz. Developing Meaning is produced by Consilient Mind LLC.

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In this episode, I sit down with Ted Riskin — social worker, IFS expert, and pioneer of group ketamine retreats — after spending a week at his beautiful home in Asheville, North Carolina participating in one of his experiences. From his unusual path as a computer programmer living in an Ashram to becoming one of the leading voices in ketamine-assisted IFS group therapy, we explore how to work with protectors, why anger deserves more respect than our culture gives it, and how group healing unlocks something individual therapy often can't reach. Plus: why meaning isn't something you find — it's something you create.

In this episode

• What exiles and protectors are and how they shape our inner world
• Why healing means becoming whole — and how IFS gets you there
• From computer programming to debugging the psyche
• How breathwork and non-ordinary states bypass the thinking brain
• Anger as a healthy boundary-setting force — and why suppressing it breeds judgment
• The three ways to work with a protector: push, invite, or pick up the cat
• Why ketamine works like holotropic breathwork — and why Ted combined it with groups
• How group healing reaches wounds that one-on-one therapy often misses
• Outcomes data: what actually changes after a group ketamine IFS retreat
• Meaning as something you generate — not something you find

Timestamps

3:42 - Meeting Ted And His Setting
5:35 - Self Energy And Finding Balance
8:20 - Exiles Protectors And Healing Wholeness
14:00 - From Programmer To Therapist
19:35 - Breathwork And Non Ordinary States
27:43 - Core Energetics And Working With Anger
36:18 - Discovering IFS Through Hypnosis
42:26 - Ketamine As A Path Past Protectors
47:15 - Building The Group Ketamine Model
52:31 - Outcomes Data And What Changes Last
53:49 - Meaning Connection And Modern Life
57:00 - Creating Meaning From A Blank Slate
59:52 - Rapid Fire Questions And Art
1:03:58 - A Depolarizing Message And Where To Find Ted
1:07:06 - What Comes Next On The Podcast

Subscribe to the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter: https://developingmeaning.substack.com/subscribe

Developing Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.

Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz. Developing Meaning is produced by Consilient Mind LLC.

Send us Fan Mail

Note: This conversation with Dr. Patricia Gerbarg was recorded in August 2025.

In this episode, we explore how breathing patterns reshape the emotional brain, restore a sense of safety, and allow meaning to return to daily life with Dr. Patricia Gerbarg, co-creator of the Breath-Body-Mind program.

From her personal development as a healer to co-creating a global healing community active in trauma hotspots like Ukraine and Rwanda, we explore the science, stories, and practical tools that help people regulate their nervous systems and reconnect with meaning.

In this episode

• Meaning as state-dependent and grounded in safety
• What Breath Body Mind is and why safety comes first
• How vagus nerve signaling links breathing to emotion
• Why talk therapy alone often cannot reach stored trauma
• The sequence: focus → movement → muscle softening → coherent breathing
• Evidence from 9/11 survivors, veterans, schools, and IBD patients
• Programs in Ukraine supporting clinicians, children, and communities
• Rwanda’s community model blending breath, ritual, and narrative
• Restoring connection, agency, and love through breath practices
• How to start with short, safe practices and build consistency

Timestamps

0:14 – Opening Teaser: Breath and Meaning
 1:42 – Host’s Mission and Series Kickoff
 2:39 – Introducing Dr. Patricia Gerbarg
 3:48 – Why Breath Body Mind Exists
 7:31 – Global Growth and Going Online
 12:18 – Scope, Impact, and Ukraine Programs
 16:24 – From Psychoanalysis to Mass Healing
 20:31 – A Child’s Panic to Schoolwide Resilience
 24:20 – Gerbarg’s Public Speaking Breakthrough
 28:18 – Early Life and Path to Psychiatry
 36:58 – Discovering Breath After Illness
 41:04 – How Breathing Shapes Emotion
 47:14 – Publishing the Vagal Theory
 52:59 – Using Breath Clinically for Trauma
 59:22 – Building a Safe, Effective Sequence
 1:03:24 – Focus, Agency, and the Ha Breath
 1:06:07 – Coherent Breathing as the Foundation
 1:11:47 – Evidence From 9/11 to Schools
 1:16:47 – Inflammatory Bowel Disease Trial
 1:22:00 – Why Breakthroughs Lack Headlines
 1:27:04 – Real-World Results in Irish Schools
 1:30:48 – Rwanda’s Community Healing Model
 1:37:18 – Perpetrators, Forgiveness, Reintegration
 1:42:49 – Meaning as Connectedness
 1:47:44 – Rapid-Fire: Love, Art, and Advice

Subscribe to the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter:

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Developing Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.

Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz.
Developing Meaning is produced by Consilient Mind LLC.

Send us Fan Mail

In this New Year’s episode, I explore the very real consequences of last year’s Past Year Review. Most notably, I decided to retire from a beloved community mental health clinic and launch Park West Integrative Psychiatry — sparked by a desire for creativity, continued learning, and a growing belief in integrative trauma-informed approaches such as EMDR, Internal Family Systems, ketamine-assisted therapy, hypnosis, and breath-based practices.

This episode reflects on how intentionally examining meaning and purpose can lead to significant life changes — changes that invite both opportunity and risk, excitement and fear.

To close the episode, I share a recording of my retirement speech from the clinic, which turns into an unexpected sing-along and a fitting ritual for marking the end of one chapter and the beginning of another.

Chapters

0:13 — Nerves and a Big Career Pivot
 0:52 — Last Year’s Review and 2025 Intentions
 1:46 — Leaving a Beloved Community Clinic
 2:46 — Why Change Now, and What’s Next
 3:09 — New Directions in Trauma Treatment and Psychiatry
 4:05 — Building Park West Integrative Psychiatry
 5:02 — Fear, Complexity, and Finding Balance
 6:00 — A Cautious Note on Year-End Reviews
 6:20 — Reflections on Podcast Growth
 7:06 — Upcoming Group Therapies and Retreats
 7:54 — Yellowstone Lessons and Old Friends
 8:40 — Gratitude, Global Listeners, and What’s Next
 9:11 — Retirement Speech and Sing-Along

Sign up for the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter for updates and behind-the-scenes reflections.

Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz.
 Developing Meaning is produced by Consilient Mind LLC.

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Happy New Year!  It's time to do a meaning inventory in order to set intentions for 2026.  Toward that end I am re-posting my meaning inventory from last year.  Our next episode will delve into how these unfolded and are leading to major career changes.

This episode invites listeners to engage in a meaningful past year review, turning away from traditional resolutions toward a more insightful approach to personal growth. By exploring the themes of beginner's mind, questioning assumptions, and the importance of consilience, Dr. Dirk Winter provides a framework for navigating mental health and self-discovery

We cover:.

• Dissecting the concept of a past year review 
• Sharing personal peaks and lows from 2024 
• Introducing guiding themes for 2025: beginner's mind, questioning assumptions, and consilience 
• Exploring the significance of various healing modalities 
• Challenging traditional mental health assumptions 
• Encouraging listeners to conduct their own past year review and set meaningful intentions 

Go ahead, do your past year review, get yourself maybe into some beginner's mind question patterns, look for areas of consilience, or come up with your own ideas or mantras for the coming year.

Them Music by The Thrashing Skumz
Produced by Dirk Winter

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Mike Mandel is a world-leading hypnotist with over 50 years of professional experience. He's performed nearly 5,000 stage shows, trained over 10,000 students at his Toronto hypnosis academy, and co-hosts the Brain Software podcast.

Our conversation bridges hypnosis, Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy, pain management, and meaning-making—showing how different healing traditions can discover the same truths about how minds heal.

Whether you're a therapist curious about hypnosis, an IFS practitioner, or simply fascinated by how minds work and heal, this conversation will expand your understanding.

You'll hear:

• The "bungalow model" of ego states and stunning parallels with IFS therapy
• How hypnosis stopped a severe burn from forming (tiny firemen with liquid nitrogen!)
• The history of hypnosis from ancient Egypt to Milton Erickson
• Why you need at least three models of reality (not just one)
• How Mike reframed chronic pain from suffering into a reminder he's alive
• Kitchen surgery stories that will blow your mind
• Rapid-fire questions about meaning, legacy, and what matters most

⚠️ WARNING: Mike starts with a brief hypnotic demonstration. Pay attention—the more you focus, the more you'll experience it. We unpack how he did it at the end.

Key Timestamps

• 05:50 - The Forgetting Demonstration
• 07:28 - Ego States & The Bungalow Model
• 15:23 - IFS & Hypnosis: Stunning Parallels
• 21:50 - The Frozen Baby: A Profound Healing Story
• 35:25 - Pain vs. Suffering
• 40:52 - The Burn Treatment Story
• 45:55 - What IS Trance?
• 56:26 - History of Hypnosis: Mesmer to Erickson
• 1:07:44 - How the Forgetting Demo Worked
• 1:18:18 - Rapid-Fire Meaning Questions

Resources

• MikeMandelHypnosis.com
• Brain Software Podcast

Developing Meaning is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS and is NOT INTENDED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.

Theme Music by The Thrashing Skumz.

Produced by Dirk Winter and Caroline Hinton

Brought to you by Consilient Mind LLC.

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Joanne Twombly, LCSW and author of Trauma Informed Internal Family Systems, has been treating complex trauma and dissociative disorders for over 30 years. In this conversation, she explores how right-brain modalities such as EMDR, hypnosis, and Internal Family Systems (IFS) can sometimes heal what words cannot. We also discuss the evolution of dissociative disorder diagnoses, the book Sybil and false memory controversies, the limits of traditional talk therapy, and the deeper role of meaning in recovery.

Timestamps
0:00 Welcome to Trauma-Informed Healing
2:57 Understanding IFS and Parts Work
8:40 From MPD to Hypnosis: Joanne's Journey
15:19 Why Traditional Therapy Falls Short
21:07 Dissociative Disorders Explained
29:05 Deep Brain Reorienting and Body-Based Approaches
36:39 Working with Transference and Meaning
48:29 Final Wisdom: Purpose in Healing Work
1:15:54 Episode Closing and Next Month Preview

Produced by Dirk Winter.

Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz.

Developing Meaning is NOT medical advice and is not affiliated with any institution.