Mark and Michael talk to the first openly gay major league professional rugby player Devin Ibañez about not fitting in boxes, setting your own pace, and how a near fatal injury lead him to becoming a beacon for others in sport.

The charity Devin mentions is rugbyforall.co

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Recorded and edited by Victoria Payne and Lianne Coop for Impatient Productions. Artwork by Haiminh Le.

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