Divorce with Carolyn

It’s one of the words Carolyn hears most in the Women’s Divorce Academy community, and it’s the one that keeps the most women stuck. In this solo episode, Carolyn sets the diagnosis question aside – nobody can answer it from the outside, and it turns out you don’t need to – and asks a more useful one: is this how your ex behaves, and what do you do about it?

She walks through how capable women end up in these relationships, what the pattern tends to look like once a separation is under way, and two techniques she has used herself for handling contact with a high-conflict ex. Then she explains why the real relief isn’t winning, and what it is instead.

Nothing in this episode is a diagnosis. If you’re frightened of your ex, please go straight to the support links below.

Key takeaways

• Only a psychologist or psychiatrist can diagnose narcissistic personality disorder, and your ex is unlikely to sit for it. The behaviour is the information, not the label.
• The intense, fast, flattering start to the relationship wasn’t a red flag you missed. Researchers have named the pattern, and the turn usually comes at the first disagreement.
• A stressed, frightened ex can behave badly for a while. A lifelong pattern that predates the separation is different. Disagreeing with you doesn’t make someone a narcissist.
• Grey rock: reply to logistics only, with no emotion, no explanation and no defence. Keep it for difficult situations, not dangerous ones.
• The perspex box: a way of managing contact on the inside, so what they say stops landing.
• The structural changes that take the fight out of the process – advice early, everything in one written channel, consent orders, child support through the agency, parallel parenting.
• You can only control what goes on in your home, in your head and in your thumbs. That’s enough.

Mentioned in this episode

• The TRUST Method quiz – find out which of the five stages you’re in, free: womensdivorceacademy.com/trust
• Women’s Divorce Academy membership: womensdivorceacademy.com/our-program
• Services Australia – child support: servicesaustralia.gov.au/child-support
• Family Advocacy and Support Services at the family court: fcfcoa.gov.au/fass

If you are not safe

• 1800RESPECT – 1800 737 732, 24 hours
• In an emergency, call 000
• Lifeline – 13 11 14

Sources

• healthdirect – Narcissistic personality disorder: healthdirect.gov.au/conditions/mental-health-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd
• MedlinePlus – Narcissistic personality disorder: medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000934.htm
• Dhawan et al 2010, Prevalence and treatment of narcissistic personality disorder in the community: a systematic review
• Psychology Today – Love bombing: psychologytoday.com/us/basics/love-bombing
• Choosing Therapy – The grey rock method: choosingtherapy.com/grey-rock-method

Send Carolyn a text

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Women's Divorce Academy offers expert divorce support and a friendly community of women who understand exactly what you're going through.

Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

CONNECT WITH US:

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Content note: This episode discusses domestic and family violence. If you need support, in Australia you can call 1800RESPECT on 1800 737 732 or visit 1800respect.org.au. Support services outside Australia are listed below. If you’re in immediate danger, call emergency services.

There’s a lot of talk about leaving an abusive relationship. What comes after gets far less attention.

Eleven years ago, Jo Mason’s life looked perfect from the outside. Behind closed doors, she was living with domestic violence. Today she runs Verdella, an online recovery program for people rebuilding after domestic violence, and hosts the Rise and Reclaim podcast.

In this episode, Jo and Carolyn talk about the long stretch after leaving – how to work out where to start when everything feels like it’s spinning, how to rebuild a support network after isolation, and whether you need to put a name to what happened. Jo also shares the moment that shifted everything for her, and what she would say to the woman she was on the day she left.

Key takeaways

• Safety comes first. Leaving needs careful planning, ideally with a specialist service or someone you trust who knows your situation.
• Recovery looks different for everyone. Mapping out the areas of your life – money, work, health, children, friendships – can show you where to focus first.
• Rebuilding happens one step at a time, and being gentle with yourself is part of the process.
• Reconnecting can start small: a message to an old friend, a book club, the local gym or coffee shop.
• You don’t owe anyone your story. You choose who you tell, and when.
• Naming what happened as domestic violence can be validating – and if you choose not to name it, that’s okay too.
• Asking for help can be a gift to the person you ask.

Links

Jo Mason

• Verdella – verdella.learnworlds.com
• WorkHaven – workhaven.com.au
• Rise and Reclaim podcast – https://verdella.com.au/tl/rise-and-reclaim

Mentioned in this episode

• 1800RESPECT – 1800 737 732, including the online services finder at 1800respect.org.au
• CommBank Next Chapter – support for anyone worried about their finances because of domestic or family violence, whoever they bank with. 1800 222 387, commbank.com.au/nextchapter

Support outside Australia

• United States – National Domestic Violence Hotline, 1800 799 7233, thehotline.org
• United Kingdom – National Domestic Abuse Helpline, 0808 2000 247, nationaldahelpline.org.uk
• New Zealand – Women’s Refuge, 0800 733 843, womensrefuge.org.nz
• Canada – find a local shelter at sheltersafe.ca

Send Carolyn a text

READY FOR MORE SUPPORT?

Women's Divorce Academy offers expert divorce support and a friendly community of women who understand exactly what you're going through.

Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @womensdivorceacademy 

Facebook: Women's Divorce Academy

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Carolyn spent a year believing she couldn't afford a lawyer, so she went without one. She now calls it a mistake – and an expensive one.

This episode is about keeping the bill down, from someone who sends them. Perth family lawyer Ella Hickman walks through what legal help actually costs, what runs the meter up without a woman realising, and where to put your money when there isn't much of it. She's blunt about her own profession, including the point at which she tells a client to stop.

The heart of it is a question Ella puts to any client weighing up a fight: what will chasing the difference cost you? Her answer takes in the asset pool, the years, and what children absorb from parents in conflict.

If the price of legal advice has stopped you getting any, start here.

Seven ways to keep your costs down

• Get advice before you agree to anything. Once your ex has a number in his head, shifting him is slow work – and slow is expensive.
• Do the prep yourself. Arrive with the shape of your asset pool, any existing parenting orders, and, if you want to keep the house, a broker's view of what you can borrow.
• Batch your emails. Every email gets read and billed. Ella's suggestion: keep a running note through the week, then send one.
• Don't use your lawyer as a counsellor. It's the most expensive therapy you'll ever buy, and she isn't trained for it.
• Take the advice you're paying for. Running an application your lawyer has warned you against can cost twice – your own fees, then a costs order for your ex's.
• Spend where it counts. When money is tight, Ella puts it into properly drafted initial documents, or into lawyer-assisted mediation.
• Do the commercial maths on "fair". Five percent of a $10 million pool is a different decision to 5% of $1 million.

Where Ella practises

Ella is based in Perth, and Western Australia has its own family court rather than sitting under the federal system. If you're in WA, she's a rare find. If you're elsewhere, the thinking in this episode still holds – check the detail of how it works in your own state or country.

Links

• Ella Hickman, Hickman Family Lawyers, Perth – free 15-minute call and a reduced-rate first appointment
• Before You Agree to Anything – the financial toolkit with the asset and liability spreadsheet Carolyn mentions
• Family Court of Western Australia – for WA listeners
• Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia – legal aid and community legal centre pathways
• Family Relationship Advice Line – 1800 050 321

Send Carolyn a text

READY FOR MORE SUPPORT?

Women's Divorce Academy offers expert divorce support and a friendly community of women who understand exactly what you're going through.

Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @womensdivorceacademy 

Facebook: Women's Divorce Academy

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If this episode helped you, subscribe to Divorce With Carolyn and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts - it helps other women find the show. Thank you!

Carolyn gets asked one question more than any other: where do I start? This episode is her answer – the TRUST Method, the five-stage path Women's Divorce Academy is built on, and the reason the order you do things in matters more than any single piece of advice you'll be given.

She takes you through all five stages, and she's honest about the one she got badly wrong herself. A decision made in the first year after her separation cost her a full year of support she was entitled to. Another, made years before she ever thought about divorce, cost her something she didn't know she had.

If divorce has arrived all at once and everyone has an opinion, this is the episode that sorts out what matters this week.

Key takeaways

• Divorce doesn't come one question at a time, and most of the advice you'll be handed contradicts the rest
• The five stages of the TRUST Method: Take stock, Regroup, Untangle, Shape, Thrive
• Four threads run through every stage – legal, money, children and you – so nothing gets dropped while you deal with what's in front of you
• Finding out what advice costs before deciding you can't afford it can change the whole first year
• In the first weeks, the job is triage: safety, access to money, the children, your health, and initial legal advice
• Decisions that look generous or harmless can carry consequences years down the track
• Where you are today isn't a grade – most women sit across two stages at once

Mentioned in this episode

• The TRUST Method stage finder – free https://www.womensdivorceacademy.com/trust
• Before You Agree to Anything – financial toolkit for property settlement: stellarcontent.thrivecart.com/know-before-you-sign/

Send Carolyn a text

READY FOR MORE SUPPORT?

Women's Divorce Academy offers expert divorce support and a friendly community of women who understand exactly what you're going through.

Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @womensdivorceacademy 

Facebook: Women's Divorce Academy

SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW:

If this episode helped you, subscribe to Divorce With Carolyn and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts - it helps other women find the show. Thank you!

When Carolyn started working at News Corp, Mel Wilson was her boss – a journalist who seemed to have everything together. Carolyn had no idea Mel was going through a separation too.

Ten years on, Mel talks about what was happening underneath. A six-month-old and a three-and-a-half-year-old. A household budget sum that came out at zero. A job interview where she did something her future boss would call brave years later. An offer from her parents she tried very hard to refuse.

Mel shares how she kept her career moving with young kids, what she had to let go of to do it, and why a year of dating experiments rebuilt her confidence. And she passes on a story Amanda Keller told her that changed how she thinks about parenting children who are growing up.

Key takeaways

• Accepting help is part of getting through it. People who offer want to help, and saying yes lets them.
• Being upfront about your limits can work in your favour. Mel told her future boss exactly what she couldn't do, and still got the job.
• Some of the balls you're juggling are plastic and some are glass. Knowing which is which tells you what you can let drop.
• A few minutes between work and home – in the car, on the train – can change who walks through the door.
• Standards can shift for a season. The toast crumbs will still be on the bench when you get home.
• Dating again can be research. Mel's year of one date a month was mostly about working out what she wanted and learning to ask for it.
• There's no set role for a new partner in your children's lives. It's something you work out together, openly, over time.

Links

Mel Wilson

• Parenting in Progress: Imperfect advice for the biggest role of your life (HarperCollins) – https://harpercollins.com.au/products/9781460716083
• The Juggling Act podcast, co-hosted with Jules Robinson (back catalogue) – podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-juggling-act/id1198896352

Mentioned in this episode

• The Third Space by Dr Adam Fraser – penguin.com.au/books/the-third-space-9781761043420
• The Zero F*cks Cookbook by Yumi Stynes (Hardie Grant) – https://publishing.hardiegrant.com/en-au/books/the-zero-fucks-cookbook-by-yumi-stynes/9781743793947
• Before You Agree to Anything – a financial toolkit for women heading into a property settlement. A$49. stellarcontent.thrivecart.com/know-before-you-sign/

Send Carolyn a text

READY FOR MORE SUPPORT?

Women's Divorce Academy offers expert divorce support and a friendly community of women who understand exactly what you're going through.

Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @womensdivorceacademy 

Facebook: Women's Divorce Academy

SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW:

If this episode helped you, subscribe to Divorce With Carolyn and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts - it helps other women find the show. Thank you!

A note on this episode: Di describes emotional and financial abuse in her marriage. If anything here lands close to home, the support services below are available any time.

Di Geddes knew her marriage was in trouble on the day she married. She stayed for 21 years. What finally ended it wasn't a single moment – it was her eldest son standing in front of her and asking her to do something.

By the time she left, Di had a breast cancer diagnosis behind her, no savings and no self-belief. In the years that followed she lost both her parents. Then, with $10,000 and a fair bit of bluff, she started a business.

In this conversation Di tells Carolyn what it actually took to rebuild – the thing she had to let go of before anything could change, the friendship that carried her through, and why she now describes losing everything as the biggest gift she was ever given.

Key takeaways

• Children see more than we think they do. Di stayed to hold the family unit together – it was her son who told her he couldn't live in the house any more.
• Erosion doesn't require violence. Di names the verbal and mental chipping away that left her with no self-esteem, no money and no sense of her own capability.
• Letting go of the anger wasn't the same as forgiving him. Di describes the moment in a church pew when she understood what carrying it was costing her.
• Grief doesn't wait its turn. Cancer, separation, both parents dying and two bullying workplaces inside a few years – and no space to feel any of it.
• Di's approach to falling apart: shut the blinds, cry for as long as you need, but know the date you're getting up again.
• Independence had to be built on purpose. When her eldest son moved overseas, Di had to go back and find the woman she'd been at 25.
• Starting a business in her fifties took a leap of faith and a clear set of values – she left a job she loved because the people running it were counting the money.

Links mentioned

• Di Geddes – digeddes.com.au
• Di's memoir, Courage to Be Me – digeddes.com.au
• Di's home care and disability support business, Exceptional Care for You – exceptionalcareforyou.com
• Breast Cancer Network Australia – bcna.org.au
• 1800RESPECT (family, domestic and sexual violence counselling, including emotional and financial abuse) – 1800respect.org.au or 1800 737 732
• Lifeline – 13 11 14

A note on this episode: Di describes emotional and financial abuse in her marriage. If anything here lands close to home, the support services above are available any time.

Send Carolyn a text

READY FOR MORE SUPPORT?

Women's Divorce Academy offers expert divorce support and a friendly community of women who understand exactly what you're going through.

Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @womensdivorceacademy 

Facebook: Women's Divorce Academy

SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW:

If this episode helped you, subscribe to Divorce With Carolyn and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts - it helps other women find the show. Thank you!

Carolyn's children were twelve, six and four when she separated. They're teenagers and young adults now, and their verdict on divorced parents is two Christmases, more holidays, and the nuisance of footy boots left at the wrong house.

The worry sits with the mothers. Stephanie Pinto is an emotional intelligence coach and paediatric anxiety therapist, and here she and Carolyn get practical: how to become the parent your children come to rather than the one they manage, the questions that open a child up when "how are you feeling" shuts them down, and what it means that the household culture is now yours to build. Plus the question Carolyn hears from women more than any other, about the house she doesn't control.

Key takeaways

• Work on your own emotional intelligence before your children's. That doesn't mean staying calm – as Stephanie puts it, a permanently zen parent is a robot, not a human.
• Check-ins land best sideways. At tuck-in, or in the car on the way to sport. Sometimes nothing comes of it. Sometimes you get gold.
• "Do you want solutions, or do you just want me to listen?" It's the question that makes you the parent your children come to when something goes wrong, rather than the one they manage around.
• Children will often discuss a friend's behaviour long before they'll discuss their own. Carolyn calls it the side door.
• Every family already has a culture, chosen or not. After separation you get to build yours on purpose – and it holds whether there's one adult in the house or two.
• Dr Ross Greene's principle that kids do well if they can. When something isn't working there's a reason, and the fix has to work for everyone under the roof.
• Rupture and repair is normal, expected and healthy. You can come back hours or days later and repair it. There is almost no cutoff.

Links

From Women's Divorce Academy

• What to say to your kids right now – a free guide covering under-fives, five to twelves and teenagers, including what to say when a child asks whose fault it is, how to be honest with a teenager without handing them adult detail, language for the handover and the day a child refuses to go, and what to do when the conversation goes badly. womensdivorceacademy.com/free-what-to-say-to-your-kids
• The values exercise Carolyn mentions is the first thing new members do inside the WDA membership. Join here: https://www.womensdivorceacademy.com/our-program
• The Separated Mother's Toolkit – family lawyer interviews on parenting plans and binding agreements, a child support fact sheet, a Centrelink guide, a parenting schedule tracker and co-parenting scripts. A$49. stellarcontent.thrivecart.com/separated-mothers-toolkit/

Stephanie Pinto

• Website: stephaniepinto.com
• Her book, From Chaos to Connection: How parenting with emotional intelligence raises kind, confident, resilient kids
• Her podcast, Emotionally Intelligent Parenting
• Her Facebook group, Let's Raise Emotionally Intelligent Kids
• Instagram: @emotionally.intelligent.parent

Mentioned in this episode

• The feelings wheel – Dr Gloria Willcox's original, the one that breaks a broad state like "angry" into six more specific ones. Free printable PDF: https://judishouse.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Feeling-Wheel-Handouts.pdf
• Dr Ross Greene – "kids do well if they can", and the Collaborative and Proactive Solutions approach: livesinthebalance.org

Send Carolyn a text

READY FOR MORE SUPPORT?

Women's Divorce Academy offers expert divorce support and a friendly community of women who understand exactly what you're going through.

Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @womensdivorceacademy 

Facebook: Women's Divorce Academy

SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW:

If this episode helped you, subscribe to Divorce With Carolyn and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts - it helps other women find the show. Thank you!

Carolyn invited Stephanie Pinto on to talk about raising emotionally intelligent children. The conversation kept turning back to the mothers.

Because emotional intelligence is straightforward enough to explain and almost impossible to practise when you're the one coming apart. When you're making decisions you don't fully understand, at a pace you didn't choose, with children who need you steady.

Stephanie is an emotional intelligence coach and paediatric anxiety therapist. Here she unpicks why kindness without boundaries helps nobody, what happens in the seconds before you send a message you'll regret, and how to buy those seconds back.

Carolyn shares the small administrative habit that changed the tone of her entire separation. And near the end, something about grief she hasn't said on this podcast before.

Key takeaways

• Emotional intelligence has two halves – knowing what you're feeling, and recognising the other person has their own state going on. Empathy on its own isn't the whole skill.
• You can validate what someone feels without agreeing with them and without dropping the boundary. Those aren't in conflict.
• A limited emotional vocabulary costs more than it sounds like it should. "Mad" and "sad" don't tell you what's actually happening, in a child or in yourself.
• Solutions offered too early don't land. Not because the solution is wrong, but because the person isn't ready to hear it.
• The gap between reacting and responding is a skill rather than a personality trait. It can be built.
• Nothing you write down stays yours. Emails and texts can be read out in court, forwarded, or found by your children years later.
• Relief and grief turn up together. You can be certain you did the right thing and still be flattened by what you lost.

Links

Stephanie Pinto

• Website: stephaniepinto.com
• Her book, From Chaos to Connection: How parenting with emotional intelligence raises kind, confident, resilient kids
• Her podcast, Emotionally Intelligent Parenting
• Her Facebook group, Let's Raise Emotionally Intelligent Kids
• Instagram: @emotionally.intelligent.parent

Mentioned in this episode

• The Separated Mother's Toolkit – family lawyer interviews on parenting plans and binding agreements, a child support fact sheet, a Centrelink guide, a parenting schedule tracker and co-parenting scripts. A$49. There's also a parenting plan template you can add at the checkout, so you're filling in a document rather than starting with a blank page.

Send Carolyn a text

READY FOR MORE SUPPORT?

Women's Divorce Academy offers expert divorce support and a friendly community of women who understand exactly what you're going through.

Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @womensdivorceacademy 

Facebook: Women's Divorce Academy

SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW:

If this episode helped you, subscribe to Divorce With Carolyn and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts - it helps other women find the show. Thank you!

Ten years on from separation, Carolyn is still in regular conflict with her ex-husband. It looks different now than it did at the start – but there always seems to be something in the process.

In this solo episode she opens up the arrangements she and her ex made at the beginning. One of them held. One of them didn't. And the reason the first one nearly came apart isn't the reason you'd expect – it had nothing to do with him.

She talks about the pressure separated women carry to be collaborative and get it right, and what happened to one woman she coached who spent a year interrogating her children on the drive home about what went on at their father's house.

And she makes a case that cuts against almost everything you'll hear about co-parenting: the thing most women treat as a last resort is the thing that gives you your life back.

If you're setting arrangements up now, or living inside ones that stopped working a while ago, this one is for you.

Links

Mentioned in this episode

• The Separated Mother's Toolkit – stellarcontent.thrivecart.com/separated-mothers-toolkit/ (there's a super useful parenting plan template you can add at the checkout too)
• 1800RESPECT – 1800 737 732, 24 hours – 1800respect.org.au
• Family Advocacy and Support Services (FASS) – free duty lawyers and support workers – fcfcoa.gov.au/fass
• Children's Contact Services – supervised changeover and contact – familyrelationships.gov.au
• Child support collection options – servicesaustralia.gov.au
• Independent Children's Lawyer – what they do and when they're appointed – fcfcoa.gov.au/fl/children/icl

Key takeaways

• Why an arrangement that was sensible at the start comes under pressure anyway – and why your ex isn't the only variable in it
• The difference between a parenting plan and consent orders, and what neither of them can do for you
• Why police don't enforce parenting orders, what actually happens when someone breaches them, and the one exception
• The counter-intuitive case for bringing outside services in early rather than treating them as a last resort
• What parallel parenting looks like day to day, and why choosing it isn't a failure to co-parent properly
• What the research says children need after separation – and why it isn't more contact time
• Where general co-parenting advice stops being useful, and what belongs around you if you've left an abusive relationship

Worth reading

• Australian Institute of Family Studies, Child wellbeing after parental separation – aifs.gov.au
• Harvard Center on the Developing Child, The Science of Resilience – developingchild.harvard.edu
• Australian Federal Police on breaches of family law and parenting orders – afp.gov.au

Support outside Australia

• UK – National Domestic Abuse Helpline, 0808 2000 247, free, 24 hours
• US – National Domestic Violence Hotline, 1-800-799-7233, or text START to 88788
• New Zealand – Are You OK, 0800 456 450. Women's Refuge, 0800 733 843
• Canada – ShelterSafe.ca will connect you with the right line for your province

Send Carolyn a text

READY FOR MORE SUPPORT?

Women's Divorce Academy offers expert divorce support and a friendly community of women who understand exactly what you're going through.

Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @womensdivorceacademy 

Facebook: Women's Divorce Academy

SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW:

If this episode helped you, subscribe to Divorce With Carolyn and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts - it helps other women find the show. Thank you!

Episode summary

Helene has been through two separations so she's in a rare position: she can look back and see exactly what was different the second time round, and why it made all the difference to how she got through it. In this conversation, she talks about the work she did between the two relationships, the exercise she still uses with her own clients to work through hard emotions, and how she found her way out of a victim mentality and into real agency. It's a conversation full of practical, hard-won insight.

Key takeaways

• Getting professional support early changes the trajectory of a separation.
• The "hidden benefits" exercise
   can dissolve an emotional charge enough to make a decision from a clear head rather than a reactive one.
• Moving out of victim mentality starts with recognising the beliefs formed early in life that are still running the show.
• Blended families often work better with house rules for everyone, and separate rules under each parent, rather than forcing one set of rules on both.
• Keeping the family home at all costs isn't always the financially sound choice – sometimes investments, superannuation or cash reserves serve a woman better long-term.
• A fully felt emotion only lasts around ninety seconds – learning to sit with it rather than numb it can loosen its grip over time.
• Reaching out to family and friends, even when shame says not to, is more likely to bring support than judgement.
  
  

Links mentioned in this episode

• Women's Divorce Academy membership – https://www.womensdivorceacademy.com/our-program
• Thinkbowl Marketing – https://www.thinkbowl.com.au/
• Her Money Matters podcast – https://www.hermoneymatters.com.au/podcast
• Medicare mental health treatment plans (Australia only) – Better Access initiative, Department of Health (covers GP mental health plans and rebated sessions)
• Coercive control support, 1800RESPECT

Send Carolyn a text

READY FOR MORE SUPPORT?

Women's Divorce Academy offers expert divorce support and a friendly community of women who understand exactly what you're going through.

Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @womensdivorceacademy 

Facebook: Women's Divorce Academy

SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW:

If this episode helped you, subscribe to Divorce With Carolyn and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts - it helps other women find the show. Thank you!