Today I'm joined by Frédéric Dalsace, Professor of Marketing at the prestigious IMD business school and co-author of a new book, Clean Winners. The book looks at where high profile corporate sustainability ventures have failed, notably Unilever, and sets out 'Sustainability 2.0' to address those shortcomings. As you'll hear, we don't agree on everything – the role of premium Sustainability products/services is a notable example – but we do agree on the fundamental point that Sustainability must deliver business benefits to survive. We both have plenty of opinions!

The offer of a place on my Achieving Net Zero: A Practical Guide for Business course for just £11.99 can be found here. That's incredible value and you'll be helping keep the podcast on the road. The link will expire on 17 May 2026, so don't dawdle.

The episode is brought to you by Terra Infirma Ltd - Bringing Sustainability to Life.

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