My favorite quote from this discussion was "the teacher hasn't taught until the student has learned." There is something about it that is so eloquent, simple, logical, and profound. It speaks to the importance of being humble, listening, and considering other people; rather than just being in our own head. So much of this conversation with Mac circled around these topics. 

Mac is an author of a new book, Positive Masculinity Now, which takes a deep dive into gender expectations, socialization, and messaging. He is a life long martial artist, with a black belt in numerous different areas. Mac is also a trans-man and activist. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think the last piece was going to be the major focus of the conversation.

We certainly discussed the topic of gender fluidity and tried to understand what masculinity really means, how science fits into the discussion, and what role socialization plays in our view of gender. But what I loved is that we spent much of the conversation just talking as people. We talked about Mac's background, his love of teaching, the value martial arts has brought to his life, his value of trying to make a difference in the world, and many other things. That is what I want this show to be about. To explore people and their perspectives, with no agenda, no biases, no preconceived notions--just talk, listen, and learn.

At the end of the discussion we got into a really interesting conversation about rigidity. Mac made the point that being agile is so necessary in a world that is constantly changing. We discussed how important self confidence is to actually be agile, but also why some people think rigidity is a noble trait. They believe it speaks to their conviction and it is necessary to protect themselves from potential "evils" in the world. We had some really insightful dialogue that I truly enjoyed and I hope you all do as well.