I chat with Liam and Elizabeth about Ivan Karamazov's objections to life and the world. We consider the ubiquity of human suffering, and agree with Ivan that if we had to found a universal harmony on the tears of one child, we would not do it. After this we chat about Ivan's "poem" and explore the relationship between freedom and suffering, the ways in which this text predicts the totalitarian mindset, and the mysterious significance of Christ's kiss.