Grief is a social contract, says Dr Kelsey Crowe in this second of our two-part special with the professional empathy expert. In a revealing and intimate conversation, Kelsey and Aleks dive into the moment Kelsey realised the griever's role in a crisis period, and what that means for personal resilience. It's not what you might think.

The Resilient is a podcast about powerful people, like you and me. It’s an eavesdrop session on their toughest times, and what they’ve done since then. It’s about life transitions, difficult decisions and unexpected twists and turns. Because life happens. It's brought to you by FlowerApp.com and is produced and presented by Dr Aleks Krotoski and Pillowfort Productions. It is mixed by Katie McMurran.