Is the Catholic Church in America really as divided as the headlines suggest — or are we being told a story that isn't quite true? In this episode, host Jonathan Lewis sits down with Dr. Tim O'Malley, theologian, author, and Associate Director for Research at the McGrath Institute for Church Life at the University of Notre Dame, to unpack liturgical division, the wisdom of St. Augustine, Pope Leo's early emphasis on unity, and what it really means to live in communion with people who are different from us.

Drawing on Augustine's response to the Donatist controversy, the legacy of Vatican II, and his own conversion story growing up Catholic in the Bible Belt, Tim offers a hopeful and refreshingly honest take on Church unity — and a practical challenge for every Catholic listening.

Episode Timestamps

• 00:00 — Cold open: political idolatry and the worship shaping American life today
• 00:23 — Meet Tim O'Malley: professor at Notre Dame's McGrath Institute for Church Life
• 01:07 — Tim's conversion story: growing up Catholic in South Florida and becoming "the only Catholic" in East Tennessee
• 03:04 — Tim's most formative liturgical memories: confirmation, marriage, and Mass at Notre Dame on 9/11
• 05:01 — Why the ordinary, regular practice of Sunday Mass shapes identity more than the "big moments"
• 06:21 — Why liturgy is so often the flashpoint for division in the U.S. Catholic Church
• 09:26 — Is liturgy a proxy war? How Vatican II's reforms were historically unprecedented
• 12:31 — Most Catholics aren't fighting about the liturgy — so who is, and why?
• 13:58 — "The spicy part": Tim's hot take on infant baptism reform
• 15:11 — Docility and the wisdom of Romano Guardini: letting the liturgy shape you
• 16:03 — St. Augustine's letter to Januarius on liturgical diversity and unity in non-essentials
• 17:07 — What St. Augustine and the Donatist controversy teach the Church about unity amid division
• 20:06 — Naming America's real idolatry: political worship, MAGA, and eschatological hope in politics
• 21:01 — Pope Leo XIV, Chicago roots, and echoes of Augustine, "the Bishop of Hippo," in his early pontificate
• 22:08 — Pope Leo's motto "In the One, We Are One" and what it means for the Church today
• 22:55 — What breaks Tim's heart: exclusion, disunity, and forgetting the gift of grace
• 25:05 — What gives Tim hope: the rise of lay-led ecclesial and apostolic movements
• 27:01 — What does it actually mean to be "in communion"? Why difference is essential to real unity
• 30:36 — Tim's #1 practice for building unity: get off social media and know your literal neighbor
• 31:49 — Lightning round: potluck dish, patron saints for this moment (Augustine and Benedict)
• 32:48 — What Tim wants newcomers to know about the Catholic Church
• 34:06 — Closing reflection: "My fault, my fault, my most grievous fault" — why imperfection belongs in the Church
• 34:37 — Episode wrap-up and where to find more Communion Project resources
  
  About the Guest

  Dr. Tim O'Malley is a theologian and Associate Director for Research at the McGrath Institute for Church Life at the University of Notre Dame. He holds a PhD from Boston College and has spent his career studying and teaching on liturgy, sacraments, and the life of the Church.