Drones have quietly moved from the margins of U.S. foreign policy to the center of modern warfare. From covert strikes in Yemen and Pakistan to “drug boat” operations in the Caribbean and drone-dominated battlefields in Ukraine, the promise of “precision” has collided with the reality of civilian death, legal grey zones, and almost no public accountability.

In this Delve Revamp, Chalin sits down with Scott Shane, former New York Times national security reporter and author of Objective Troy: A Terrorist, a President, and the Rise of the Drone. Together, they trace how Washington came to rely so heavily on drones, why civilian casualties are so hard to count—and even harder to prevent—and what the Anwar al-Awlaki case reveals about targeted killing, citizenship, and executive power.

If you’ve ever wondered whether drones actually make us safer—or simply make war easier to wage at a distance—this conversation is a bracing primer on the ethics, law, and human costs of remote warfare.