Season 4, Episode 18 of Let’s Chat with Kat and Pat features Katrina Petteri and Patrick Gilroy discussing why they won’t make episode 25 this year, technical problems and personal losses, and a new idea for trash companies to offer extra holiday box pickups.

The hosts also dive into holiday plans and downsizing gifts, family drama around a daughter in rehab and phone activation issues, teaching a teen son how to buy meaningful gifts, and complicated relationships with exes and extended family.