In this episode Esmorie and I talk about finding the self within the influence of social negotiations. We begin and end the episode full circle with a key lesson, the importance of training the muscle to say, ‘I don’t know right now’.

Esmorie grew up in Jamaica, she was surrounded by both male and female black leaders, so role models could be found everywhere. She grew up believing in a common goal of greater progress for everyone, she acknowledges now as an adult this perception has not been her reality outside of Jamaica. Our conversation refers to the systematic, systemic and structural racial and ethnic marginalisation that continues in society but specific reference to Higher Education. This leads the conversation onto the ‘good citizen’, decolonising the curriculum and the role of individuals sustaining notions of colonialism. We also touch on gaslighting as a means of / method commonly used to deny those of their experiences of racial discrimination in the workplace. Esmorie offers an interesting perspective on the way in which university students perceive power within departments, the choices they make to engage with the teachers who they perceive has the most power and she likens this to the dynamics between children leveraging power with their divorcing feuding parents.

We finish with my signature question on self-care, while we acknowledge the importance of this, self-care contradicts inherited ideas of hard work, sacrifice and colonial history.