On this episode of the podcast Cody chats with Calgary hip-hop superstar Pat Clifton. The two of them have a very deep conversation while trying to answer the question why is it so hard to talk about ourselves and the things we are passionate about? They also cover a wide variety of other subject matter including: using the resources that you have available to take control of your art, the shift towards independent production and how that effects the music industry, keeping it simple (the ones that make it complicated never get congratulated), how art is always a little self indulgent in the beginning, releasing shorter bodies of work more frequently, the importance of deadlines, always remembering to be kind to yourself, allowing yourself to fail so you can learn from your mistakes, the goods and the bads of social media, how maintaining a positive mindset is always going to be a battle, doing your best everyday to choose the light, the importance of finishing the things that you start, realizing that perfection is unattainable and all you can do is your best, how technology has given us all the freedom to do whatever the fuck we want, realizing that we are the ones laying the foundations for what the future of art will look like, and how at the end of the day its all about the connections you make. You can listen to Pats single Indigo Child at the end of the episode.