What does real leadership look like when the country’s rivers are polluted, the public is angry, and the system feels stuck?

Giles Bristow, CEO of Surfers Against Sewage, has lived both sides of the fight — from environmental lawyer inside the corporate machine to leading one of the UK’s most recognisable grassroots movements.

This is not a comfortable conversation.

Rich and Giles go head-to-head on profit versus public good, the ethics of finance in an environmental crisis, and whether the law is powerful enough to deliver real change. They explore what it takes to mobilise 100,000 members without losing credibility, how to balance disruption with influence, and why the next Water Bill could define the next decade of environmental campaigning.

This episode is about power. Strategy. Courage. And the difference between shouting from the sidelines and leading in the storm.

If you care about clean water, ethical investment, or the future of environmental leadership — this one will challenge you.