The purpose of restrictions in a community association is to maintain the lifestyle and the look of the community. That's one of the reasons homes in associations are valued at 5 to 6 percent more than those in non-association neighborhoods. Betsy Barbieux explains how enforcement is an important responsibility and a necessary evil.

TRANSCRIPT

Betsy - Hi, I'm Betsy, and welcome to CAM Matters. Today, we're going to be talking about enforcement and why that matters. [Announcer] Welcome to CAM Matters. Condos, co-ops, HOAs, and beyond. Betsy Barbieux is an informational leader in Florida on community association living, rights, and obligations. She is an expert on the rights and obligations of owners, as well as the association. If you live or are planning to live in the state of Florida, there's a good chance you'll be part of a community association. And by the end of this show, you'll know a little bit more about community associations and why they matter.

Suzanne - Hi, welcome to CAM Matters. I'm Suzanne Lynn and this is Betsy Barbieux. And we are talking about enforcement today. And I don't know, I think when you start thinking about boards and community living, it kind of gets a bad rap. I want to talk about first of all, why we've got to have these rules and why there is enforcement.

Betsy - It does get a bad rap and I'm glad that I have a chance to defend it.

Suzanne - Right?

Betsy - And to tell the other side. You hear of so many mean boards,

Suzanne - Right.

Betsy - and they're mean to these old people.

Suzanne - Well, the neighbors are talking to other neighbors. Yes, absolutely.

Betsy - And I tell you, no one ever presents the other side. So I'm gonna present the other side today. Enforcement, the why of it is, and I'm gonna tag back to something that we said earlier, in an earlier show.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - The why is because of these. We are in, we as in owners and the board the association, the corporation, are in a contractual relationship. The parties to the contract have to fulfill the mandates in the contract.

Betsy - That's a lot, can I just pick this up?

Suzanne - Yeah.

Suzanne - Yeah, so is this the typical?

Betsy - Oh, that's small.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - Just put it back down.

Suzanne - Yeah, I didn't want to get a hernia.

Betsy - But we are in a contractual relationship. When you moved into your community, I'll just go back and refresh just a little bit.

Suzanne - Yes.

Betsy - But when you moved into your community, you traded off some of your rights to do what you want with your property, in exchange for something else. If you moved from Texas, and had a farm in Texas, and you move here, yes, you will have to clean up after your dog. And you probably did not in Texas.

Suzanne - Probably not.

Betsy - On the farm.

Suzanne - The cattle, no.

Betsy - Yeah. No in fact you use that for other stuff.

Suzanne - Right.

Betsy - But this is a contractual relationship. When you moved in, you were given the opportunity to read these, whether you know it or not, you were. These were public, we talked about them being public. It's possible that here, you don't really recognize that you have a trade-off. You might have promised in your contract to not paint your house, or not re-roof, or put a fence in or pool in without getting permission from the Homeowner's Association. You might have moved into your condo and became contractually obligated to not hang a roof on your door, or put a flowerpot outside of your front door.

Suzanne - But you just signed. "I want this place."

Betsy - "I want this place."

Betsy - Right.

Betsy - The reason for the restrictions is to maintain the lifestyle and the look of the community. I think I mentioned earlier that homes in community associations are five to six percent higher in value than homes that are not. Have you ever driven through a neighborhood that does not have a Homeowner's Association?

Suzanne - You mean with the cars jacked up on cement blocks?

Betsy - Yes.

Suzanne - Where they're changing the oil?

Betsy - Yes.

Suzanne - Yeah, I've seen them.

Betsy - And the old dishwasher and old refrigerator out in the yard?

Suzanne - And the fact is you were probably attracted to your community because it had a certain look to it.

Betsy - They're uniform, harmonious,

Suzanne - Right. They have a nice scheme and design to them. And that probably attracted you. So we don't want you to be the neighbor that puts your car up on the blocks.

Betsy - Right.

Suzanne - To change the oil.

Betsy - Right.

Betsy - So that is why we have a contractual obligation. The board has to enforce these. And the owners, by moving in, have agreed to comply, voluntarily comply.

Suzanne - 'Cause it takes enforcement to keep a certain standard.

Betsy - And quite frankly there are a few people who should not live in these kinds of communities because they can't stand a line drawn in the sand, and you just have to stomp on it.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - There's some people who just shouldn't be here.

Suzanne - Sure.

Betsy - You need to go back to the farm.

Suzanne - Right.

Betsy - And that's okay.

Suzanne - And you want more flexibility and just.

Betsy - And that's okay. But for a lot of people, 9,600,000 in Florida, this is the way they like to live. So that's the why. The board is not picking on you, or shouldn't be. We can talk about equitable.

Suzanne - Right.

Betsy - But the board is doing what it has to do. It has no choice. If it says that you have to build your home with a setback of 50 fee or a setback of 80 fee, then you can't build your home any other way but that.

Betsy - Well it's important, I mean you wanna keep things as they are, and the important part is being aware when you're moving into a community that that's existing.

Suzanne - You know, we're hoping with this series of CAM Matters that this will help people.

Betsy - Right. Sure.

Suzanne - So that they'll know some things before they move in.

Betsy - So when we first started this show, you talked about you wanna give the other side, because it's very true. One neighbor talks to another, they only hear this, "They want to make him get rid "of their dog that's 13 years old." Well, there's more to the story, if it comes down to the board, it's probably because they've exceeded the amount of pets, and they've now made that story so refined to make it look like they're the victim.

Suzanne - Yeah, so and pets are another matter.

Betsy - Right, we'll do a show on that.

Suzanne - We'll do a show on pets. But when the board is asking you to comply, it's because they have been required to by the documents. Yes, there are occasionally bully boards, but for the most part they're not.

Betsy - Right.

Suzanne - They're just doing what they're supposed to do from the contract.

Suzanne - Right, well I'll tell you what, when we come back we are gonna talk about the who part of enforcement. And this is where things can get a little bit crazy, so you don't wanna miss it.

Announcer - Are you ready for a new career? Do you have skills or interest in management, real estate, construction, maintenance, accounting, strategic planning, project management, budgets, human resource management, lawn and landscaping, pool services, or any other expertise needed to operate a community association? If you do, Community Association Management could be for you. For more information, fell free to e-mail Betsy at [email protected], or visit the Florida CAM Schools website at www.FloridaCAMSchools.com. Florida Community Association Management continues to grow. Career opportunities abound.

Suzanne - Welcome back to CAM Matters with Suzanne and Betsy, and today we're talking about enforcement. And we covered the why, now we're getting to the who. And this is where it gets a little more personal because sometimes it feels like it's personal, like they're beating you up a little bit. Like they're targeting you.

Betsy - And they're probably not.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - Now again, there are some boards that are out of line, but for the most part, most are not.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - They are enforcing the restrictions in the documents because they have to.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - Again, we're going back to this as a business. And if you want to know how big of a business it is, let's do a little bit of arithmetic.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - If you take the value of a home or a unit, multiply that times the number of homes or units in your community, and right there.

Suzanne - That's a lot.

Betsy - That's a lot right there.

Suzanne - That's a big number, right?

Betsy - And you can even take a 10 year ago depressed value.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - Of a home or a unit. Multiply that times the number of units. Add to that your budget amount, which could have a lot of zeros after that. Add to that the reserve account amount. Reserves are the strategic savings.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - For the big ticket items that we're going to replace in years to come like roof, paving painting, elevator, pool, servicing.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - Those kinds of things that we're gonna replace in five, 10, 15, 20, 30 years. You add to that, which in some communities reserves are millions of dollars.

Suzanne - Oh, wow, okay.

Betsy - And then you add to that the value of the common property, the things at the pool, the clubhouse the roads are on. You add that, and we have something with a dozen or more zeros after it.

Suzanne - Wow.

Betsy - This is a multi-million dollar corporation. You as owners think of it as your home, but the board has to put on their business hat and see it as a business.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - And they are fulfilling their contractual obligations to enforce whatever it says in here. And as much as it might feel personal when you get that violation letter, it's not, it's business. The board has to be equitable in its enforcement, so they can't let one owner slide.

Suzanne - Sure,

Betsy - And then hammer on another owner.

Suzanne - Right. They've gotta be consistent.

Betsy - They have to be consistent.

Suzanne - Right.

Betsy - They have to be equitable. And the documents will require the board to do that. So they will be fulfilling what is here, plus boards need a written policy for how many letters do they send to an owner to get compliance.

Betsy - Sure. And then when they have reached the point that the owner's not gonna comply. Do you turn it over to the attorney, which is gonna cost money, or do you send internal procedures that the statutes allow? Which would be to find them, or to suspend the use rights.

Betsy - They can't use the pool.

Suzanne - Can't use the pool.

Suzanne - Or something like that.

Betsy - Right. Or to in some cases that depending on which type of violation it is to suspend their voting rights.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - So those would be internal procedures, but they need written policies for how and when they implement that, so that they don't appear to be arbitrary.

Suzanne - Right, don't most boards already have those established though?

Betsy - Oh, Suzanne, no they do not.

Suzanne - They don't?

Betsy - They don't.

Suzanne - Oh.

Betsy - They don't.

Suzanne - It's easier once you move in and it's already established. This is the way it is, but when you're making the, ugh.

Betsy - And that is something that I try to help on the management side with the managers. I try to give managers opportunities, in their Continuing Ed classes, to draft some of these policies and procedures.

Suzanne - Sure.

Betsy - And get them started.

Suzanne - Right.

Betsy - And then give them to board and say, "Here, I got it started for you. "We need these."

Suzanne - Right.

Betsy - Now a lot of management companies have policies and procedures written, and a lot of the much larger communities have policies and procedures that are written. But when you have a part-time manager or you have a manager and a half part-time maintenance person, chances in having all of that structure in time to write the policies and procedures are slim.

Suzanne - Well, and it's probably not just having the procedures, it's that enforcing the procedures. Who's gonna put the notes on the door and send out the letters and stuff.

Betsy - Right. And if you don't have management at all, if the board is all volunteer and doing everything themselves, then each board member has to be the point person for something, and that means probably one board member is gonna be the point person for enforcement.

Suzanne - Sure, I feel like we could go a whole lot longer than we normally do with this show, but I do want to talk about before we wrap up. The rights of sitting in a meeting, of a board meeting, and what you feel like needs to be enforced, and shouting out things like, there's procedures, right?

Betsy - Oh, you've heard of those meetings.

Suzanne - I've heard of them.

Betsy - Oh, you've heard of those meetings.

Suzanne - What's proper? What should people know as they're going into a board meeting?

Betsy - First, the thing that you should know when you're going to a board meeting as an owner, it's not for you. The board meeting is not for you.

Suzanne - They don't work for us?

Betsy - No.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - No, we work for the documents.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - The board works for the documents, the manager works for the documents. The board meeting is for the board. The statutes don't allow the board collectively as a whole to discuss business outside of a board meeting.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - So the only time they can talk about reviewing the contracts, violations, compliance, financials, anything to do with maintenance, and those kinds of issues, the contracts, the only time they can talk about that is at a board meeting.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - They're not supposed to talk with each other outside of a meeting.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - They then need to sit so that they see each other. You cannot do business, and they're doing business, with people whose eyeballs you cannot see.

Suzanne - Right, so if they're sitting as if they're on stage.

Betsy - They should not be sitting on stage.

Betsy - They should not sitting in a panel style because in all fairness, that makes the meeting look like it's for the owners.

Suzanne - Sure.

Betsy - But the board meeting is not an informational meeting for the owner. It is not a Q&A for the owner. The board meeting is for the board.

Suzanne - To cover what's on the agenda that night, right?

Betsy - And they can only cover what's on the agenda. The law does not allow them to add anything to the agenda. It has to be set 48 hours in advance of what's gonna be on the agenda. So any of those free-willing comments that the board is allowing owners to make.

Suzanne - My lawn is brown. That's not appropriate.

Betsy - It is not appropriate. It's not contemplated by the statute. If an owner has a concern, I want that concern gathered some way.

Suzanne - Right, you want it heard.

Betsy - I want it heard, but not at the meeting.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - It doesn't belong at the meeting, that's not what the meeting is for.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - The meeting is for the board to do its business.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - It's not to give information to the owners. It's not to take complaints from the owners. The thing about the complaints and all those pop-up, yelling, screaming things that happen, is that nothing can be done about it at that meeting because whatever that was that the owner just brought up wasn't on the agenda.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - So you can't do anything about it anyway.

Suzanne - That is so good to know.

Betsy - That makes the owner more angry.

Suzanne - I'm sure it does.

Betsy - Yeah, absolutely.

Suzanne - It makes them more angry.

Betsy - Yeah. Because what's the point in me telling you if you can't do anything?

Suzanne - Right.

Betsy - Well, that's not what the purpose of this meeting is for.

Suzanne - Or to knock on the president's door at night.

Betsy - There needs to be a procedure. If you have any level of management at all, violation issues, complaints, and maintenance complaints, need to go through management.

Suzanne - Okay.

Betsy - Managers know that part of our job is to be the buffer for the board, so that the board can enjoy walking the dog, or sitting at the pool, or playing golf, without owners constantly telling them about things that won't stop.

Suzanne - Right, reminder, it's a volunteer position.

Betsy - Volunteer, right. And managers know that this is our job. Bring it to us first, but board members also need to be taught to say, "Have you told Betsy?"

Suzanne - Sure, right.

Betsy - "Have you told the manager?"

Suzanne - Right.

Suzanne - Tell her first, and if she can't take of it, she'll bring it to the board.

Suzanne - So to wrap up the whole show, would you say that if you have a problem that you want the board to address, you need to take it to management and then it gets put on an agenda, and that's the proper procedure.

Suzanne - If management cannot handle it.

Betsy - If management can't handle it, can't resolve whatever the issue is, then the manager will bring it to the board.

Suzanne - Okay, what are some final thoughts that you have on enforcement, because it's such a touchy subject.

Betsy - It's not personal. It is business and it is because we are all contractually obligated to each other. It's a contract.

Betsy - It's a big business with a lot of zeros.

Suzanne - A lot of zeros, that's right.

Suzanne - Thank you Betsy, it was a great one today, thank you.

Announcer - Thank you for listening to CAM Matters. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. For more information, feel free to e-mail Betsy at [email protected], or visit the Florid CAM Schools website at www.floridacamschools.com. Information provided on this show is general in nature and does not constitute legal advice. Please contact a licensed attorney for your specific situation.