In this episode we talked to Dipti Desai, the founder and CEO of Crstl, about why traditional SaaS pricing is dying and what actually makes software defensible in 2025. 

Rishabh posted on X that traditional SaaS doesn't survive the next two years. We talk about why vibe coding is a feature problem, not a cost problem. Zach tells a story about a friend with a door knocking app and a companion mobile app. Jeremiah tried to vibe code a trading bot. The code worked, but the math didn't math, describing his belief that domain expertise still matters. The underserved categories nobody wants to build for might get disrupted first or last, who knows and the companies with proprietary data underneath their workflows might be the ones that survive. 

We also talked about why product managers might be the most important job of the AI era, why OpenAI is burdened by 800 million weekly actives and still doesn't have a pixel for their marketing product, why Anthropic is shipping something useful every two days but attacking open source developers in their ecosystem, and whether staying in second place is actually a competitive advantage when the cost to solve problems keeps dropping.