eCommerce Master Plan

eCommerce MasterPlan | 563: iFIT’s 4-Bucket Framework: How to Build a Subscription Business That Lasts

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Jeremy McCarty is the Chief Subscription and Content Officer of iFIT, a global leader in connected fitness via their NordicTrack, Pro-form, and Freemotion brands. 

In this episode, Jeremy reveals the proven framework he uses to build and scale subscription success at iFIT — a strategy that helps attract the right customers, keep them engaged, and grow loyalty over time.

He shares how iFIT blends product, content, and customer insight to create a subscription experience that keeps people coming back month after month.

Listen in to discover the key pillars behind his approach (including the 4-Bucket Framework) — and how you can apply them to your own eCommerce business.

Hit PLAY to hear: 

  • The exact 4-bucket framework Jeremy uses to grow iFIT’s subscription business. 
  • Why retention is the real growth driver (and how to stop churn before it starts). 
  • How “magical firsts” can keep new customers hooked from day one. 
  • The bold content strategy that makes iFIT stand out from every other fitness brand. 
  • How AI personalizes the user experience — and why it matters for engagement. 
  • The simple mindset shift every eCommerce brand needs to build loyal subscribers. 

    •  

    Key timestamps to dive straight in: 

    [03:05] Building Long-Term Customer Relationships 

    [06:42] “Start with the Customer” 

    [12:44] Expanding Fitness Innovations to All 

    [16:26] Jeremy’s 4-Bucket Framework 

    [17:55] “Delivering Value in First Impressions” 

    [23:27] Listen to Jeremy’s Top Tips! 

     

    Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/563  

    —

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    WEBVTT

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    [SPEAKER_02]: You can bring in loads of new customers, but if your existing customers are leaving at a higher rate, then it’s really hard to grow.

    00:08.898 –> 00:20.368

    [SPEAKER_02]: And so really what you have to do is you have to focus on both parts, attracting the right customers important, but keeping every customer and thinking that every customer matters is also important.

    00:23.334 –> 00:25.698

    [SPEAKER_01]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

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    [SPEAKER_01]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

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    [SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the highly to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond.

    00:36.654 –> 00:38.658

    [SPEAKER_01]: Here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

    00:41.972 –> 00:43.173

    [SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome.

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    [SPEAKER_00]: It’s great to have you here.

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    [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

    00:48.916 –> 00:54.780

    [SPEAKER_00]: So we’re going a tad left field for this one, getting into the world of fitness and subscriptions.

    00:55.360 –> 01:04.406

    [SPEAKER_00]: Because when Nordic tracks chief subscription officer asked to be on the show, you say yes, you say yes Jeremy, come on my show and you will not be disappointed.

    01:04.426 –> 01:07.448

    [SPEAKER_00]: We weren’t disappointed recording it and Jeremy is super insightful.

    01:08.248 –> 01:12.031

    [SPEAKER_00]: You know how much I love learning from slightly different areas of business.

    01:12.051 –> 01:13.552

    [SPEAKER_00]: So this is definitely one of those.

    01:13.592 –> 01:24.219

    [SPEAKER_00]: We’re talking about a digital product in the world of subscription, but I know anyone in e-commerce does that dance of retention, acquisition, retention, acquisition will subscription solve my problems.

    01:24.279 –> 01:25.420

    [SPEAKER_00]: Well, today’s guest,

    01:26.240 –> 01:35.042

    [SPEAKER_00]: is going to be taking us through what it takes to run a successful subscription product, keeping your customer subscribed, recruiting them in the first place.

    01:35.542 –> 01:46.385

    [SPEAKER_00]: We will be talking about why the product is so important and how you go about getting that right, he will be sharing his four buckets for a successful subscription product.

    01:46.445 –> 01:52.326

    [SPEAKER_00]: I’m not going to tell you what they are, you’re going to have to keep listening and we’re going to basically all the key factors you

    01:56.047 –> 01:56.868

    [SPEAKER_00]: within your business.

    01:57.548 –> 01:58.749

    [SPEAKER_00]: Super fascinating guest.

    01:58.829 –> 02:01.371

    [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and some truly brilliant top tips.

    02:01.391 –> 02:03.553

    [SPEAKER_00]: So make sure you listen right the way through to the end.

    02:08.436 –> 02:10.758

    [SPEAKER_00]: And now to introduce our special guest.

    02:11.098 –> 02:21.866

    [SPEAKER_00]: Jeremy McCarty is the Chief Subscription and Content Officer of I-Fit, a global leader in connected fitness via their Nordic track, Proform, and Free Motion Brands.

    02:21.986 –> 02:22.867

    [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Jeremy.

    02:24.708 –> 02:37.236

    [SPEAKER_00]: I’m good, really excited to have you here because I know a lot of our audience are intrigued and also probably frustrated by subscription, so to have some of your caliber on to chat about it is awesome.

    02:37.296 –> 02:40.798

    [SPEAKER_00]: How did you get into the world of e-commerce and subscription in the first place?

    02:41.220 –> 02:43.580

    [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, first let me say, it’s awesome to be here.

    02:43.880 –> 02:45.541

    [SPEAKER_02]: Super glad to be on the show.

    02:45.561 –> 02:50.382

    [SPEAKER_02]: I have been a listener myself, so it’s great to be on the other end of it, so this is great.

    02:50.402 –> 02:52.762

    [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you asked about e-commerce.

    02:52.942 –> 02:56.343

    [SPEAKER_02]: I’d love to tell you how I got into subscription if that would be great.

    02:56.843 –> 03:02.264

    [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, look at the start of my career, I actually worked in the hard work business.

    03:02.424 –> 03:04.764

    [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, it was really in consumer electronics.

    03:05.264 –> 03:08.965

    [SPEAKER_02]: We were selling televisions, computers, all of those sorts of things and the like,

    03:09.865 –> 03:24.075

    [SPEAKER_02]: And as you might imagine, one of the challenges that we’ve had is a business is that once you make a sale at the television or a computer, whatever it might be, the engagement was generally over with the customer, right?

    03:24.756 –> 03:35.444

    [SPEAKER_02]: And you had to fight really hard to get people to come back into your store, whether it was online or in the physical stores, to make the next purchase

    03:38.946 –> 03:51.035

    [SPEAKER_02]: So the business problem that we saw from all of this was that that all of that time and energy and money that you may that you spent on this was to get one sale, right?

    03:51.075 –> 03:53.857

    [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, really kind of thought of like, there’s gotta be a better way.

    03:54.237 –> 03:56.940

    [SPEAKER_02]: Wouldn’t it be better if you could monetize a relationship?

    03:57.700 –> 04:04.965

    [SPEAKER_02]: with a customer over months and years versus just one time for a single item or a handful of items.

    04:05.786 –> 04:13.151

    [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, really at the end of the day that would make your marketing money work a lot harder, it would be way more efficient, your time and energy would be more efficient.

    04:13.851 –> 04:24.299

    [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, so at the end of the day, I really wanted to find a way to create a longer lasting, deeper connection with customers, even if it started from a hardware transactional business.

    04:24.862 –> 04:29.985

    [SPEAKER_00]: So the beginning was to solve the perennial challenge of customer retention fee.

    04:30.305 –> 04:30.945

    [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, correct.

    04:31.225 –> 04:34.927

    [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that and I would say, you know, the challenge was in a hardware business.

    04:34.987 –> 04:36.028

    [SPEAKER_02]: It’s very transactional.

    04:36.228 –> 04:37.309

    [SPEAKER_02]: You purchase a thing.

    04:37.529 –> 04:38.569

    [SPEAKER_02]: The customer goes away.

    04:38.589 –> 04:39.730

    [SPEAKER_02]: You hope they come back.

    04:39.770 –> 04:41.591

    [SPEAKER_02]: He spend a lot of money to hope they come back.

    04:42.171 –> 04:45.253

    [SPEAKER_02]: In a subscription business, you’re with them every month.

    04:45.793 –> 04:46.073

    [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

    04:46.453 –> 04:50.455

    [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to continually deliver value to them every single month.

    04:50.676 –> 04:54.177

    [SPEAKER_02]: But you have an ongoing relationship and a lot of ways as a business.

    04:54.718 –> 05:00.541

    [SPEAKER_02]: You have this relationship with them where they’re going to look to you first before they do go elsewhere.

    05:00.561 –> 05:09.765

    [SPEAKER_02]: And that was really the problem that, you know, one of the, one of the solves is creating a long-term engagement through kind of crafting digital first experiences.

    05:10.486 –> 05:12.327

    [SPEAKER_02]: And it started with hardware products.

    05:12.987 –> 05:18.171

    [SPEAKER_02]: Then I layered in subscriptions really as an attachment to the hardware business.

    05:18.871 –> 05:29.619

    [SPEAKER_02]: And then eventually I found ways to really lead with the subscription where the hardware was even maybe a part of the subscription and the focus was the subscription not the hardware.

    05:30.163 –> 05:30.303

    [SPEAKER_00]: you.

    05:30.343 –> 05:45.116

    [SPEAKER_00]: So now you’ve been at I-Fit for about 12 months, I think, is that you’ve done a full year, but when you started you were their first ever person with both the word chief and officer and the word subscription in the job title.

    05:45.136 –> 05:53.223

    [SPEAKER_00]: So you’re the first super senior person who cared about who really cared about subscriptions, not just throw any shade on the rest of the seesweet there.

    05:53.823 –> 05:59.807

    [SPEAKER_00]: How do you start with that when you come into a business as big as I fit with so much going on?

    06:00.127 –> 06:04.831

    [SPEAKER_00]: And you’re this this kind of talisman for a whole new business strategy.

    06:04.991 –> 06:10.054

    [SPEAKER_02]: Well, first of all, I would say I have the good fortune of working in company that’s been around for 50 years, right?

    06:10.114 –> 06:10.755

    [SPEAKER_02]: Nordie track.

    06:11.395 –> 06:27.740

    [SPEAKER_02]: Proform, I fit, my company’s been around for 50 years, we’re celebrating that this year, and they get the good benefit of working inside of a company that’s been thinking about how to deliver awesome experiences to our customers, which we call athletes, by the way, every day for 50 years.

    06:27.840 –> 06:35.102

    [SPEAKER_02]: So we have a wonderful leadership team that I’ve got a chance to join, and they kind of did all of the work.

    06:35.931 –> 06:41.337

    [SPEAKER_02]: kind of up to that point that allowed me to come in and do what I do now is that that’s the first thing I would say.

    06:42.058 –> 06:43.320

    [SPEAKER_02]: But the where do you start?

    06:43.700 –> 06:45.683

    [SPEAKER_02]: It’s really, really simple.

    06:46.203 –> 06:47.124

    [SPEAKER_02]: You start with a customer.

    06:48.148 –> 07:11.842

    [SPEAKER_02]: hundred percent you start with what again what we call our athlete you start with the athlete and you really understand their needs at the end of the day when you build a subscription business customers get a chance to stay with you or leave you every single month every single month they get a chance to say am I getting the value that I need out of this is there something more that I want am I getting new things or is everything getting old for me

    07:12.202 –> 07:13.483

    [SPEAKER_02]: do I need something different?

    07:13.803 –> 07:15.785

    [SPEAKER_02]: Have my needs changed as an athlete?

    07:15.825 –> 07:17.125

    [SPEAKER_02]: Do I or as a subscriber?

    07:17.506 –> 07:18.907

    [SPEAKER_02]: Do I need something different?

    07:19.267 –> 07:24.871

    [SPEAKER_02]: So if you start with the customer, if you start with the subscriber needs, what are you offering?

    07:25.271 –> 07:26.172

    [SPEAKER_02]: What do they need?

    07:26.852 –> 07:30.014

    [SPEAKER_02]: And really ultimately, what does the marketplace look like?

    07:30.715 –> 07:34.757

    [SPEAKER_02]: And how do you sort of situationally set up different than the others?

    07:35.378 –> 07:35.718

    [SPEAKER_02]: That’s where

    07:41.742 –> 07:52.391

    [SPEAKER_02]: a road map for delivering your customer’s needs and I like to think about the subscription business and as it relates to customer’s needs as a little bit like the ocean.

    07:52.972 –> 07:55.274

    [SPEAKER_02]: It’s just constantly one way after another, right?

    07:55.314 –> 07:56.335

    [SPEAKER_02]: Like it’s never done.

    07:56.535 –> 07:58.036

    [SPEAKER_02]: There’s always another set of needs.

    07:58.056 –> 08:01.179

    [SPEAKER_02]: There’s always another set of customers that need something slightly different.

    08:01.639 –> 08:16.034

    [SPEAKER_02]: Technology changes, the industry changes, you have a competitor in your space that launch just something new and different that might be better than what you had a year ago, but you constantly kind of have to keep up and there’s just one wave after another of needs.

    08:16.094 –> 08:23.581

    [SPEAKER_02]: And at times I can feel overwhelming, but really ultimately what you have to do is kind of sort and organize those things.

    08:24.322 –> 08:28.523

    [SPEAKER_02]: into a perspective where you can say, this is my target audience, right?

    08:28.543 –> 08:31.264

    [SPEAKER_02]: You have to really know who your target audience is.

    08:31.864 –> 08:34.465

    [SPEAKER_02]: You can then sort of understand the needs of that segment.

    08:35.245 –> 08:37.186

    [SPEAKER_02]: And then you can deliver against those.

    08:37.486 –> 08:46.688

    [SPEAKER_02]: And even if you don’t have all of the things they need today, you can start to build on every month, every quarter, new things that you can deliver to keep

    08:52.450 –> 08:54.071

    [SPEAKER_00]: you’re a man off to my own heart there.

    08:54.111 –> 08:56.674

    [SPEAKER_00]: The customer has all the answers.

    08:56.914 –> 09:04.060

    [SPEAKER_00]: Now, if the product that you’ve put together for your customers, then is it as you were saying earlier with the hardware business?

    09:04.320 –> 09:15.029

    [SPEAKER_00]: Is it the physical product as well as a digital service or is it a pure digital subscription that you’ve got your customers interested in or a hybrid mix of each of those?

    09:15.369 –> 09:22.517

    [SPEAKER_02]: The if it subscription is a digital fitness subscription that works with our hardware also works without our hardware as well.

    09:22.577 –> 09:35.332

    [SPEAKER_02]: So really anybody can subscribe and we have a good mix of both I will say, you know, we won’t spend much time on the hardware part here today, so we’re talking about subscription, but we make the world’s best fitness equipment.

    09:35.492 –> 09:37.293

    [SPEAKER_02]: I mean we have the world’s best treadmill.

    09:37.333 –> 09:38.913

    [SPEAKER_02]: We have awesome roars.

    09:38.973 –> 09:40.254

    [SPEAKER_02]: We have an amazing bike.

    09:40.314 –> 09:47.636

    [SPEAKER_02]: I mean we make incredible hardware, which is part of what also makes it easy to pair it with an amazing subscription, right?

    09:48.236 –> 09:50.057

    [SPEAKER_02]: And the subscription that we do offer,

    09:50.877 –> 09:52.319

    [SPEAKER_02]: It’s a digital fitness subscription.

    09:52.419 –> 09:57.585

    [SPEAKER_02]: So for every month, you get access to live trainings from our trainers.

    09:57.885 –> 10:00.468

    [SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is stuff that’s recorded all over the world.

    10:01.009 –> 10:07.116

    [SPEAKER_02]: And part of what makes it different is we produce what we like to call destination fitness.

    10:07.636 –> 10:28.704

    [SPEAKER_02]: So what that means is we literally take the world’s best trainers, we go all over the world and we film very interesting runs, bikes, hikes, things like that, all through the national parks and the U.S., we’ve hiked Mount Everest, we are actually eminominated for that bit of workout, we’ve done the cliffs of more actually in that area.

    10:29.484 –> 10:42.107

    [SPEAKER_02]: You give a chance to really get a view of the world through the content that we create versus the specific like studio related workout stuff that I would say many, many fitness outfits offer.

    10:42.727 –> 10:53.570

    [SPEAKER_02]: And this kind of goes back to the part that I was talking about a second ago, which is you kind of really have to understand your audience and being a me too in any space is really challenging.

    10:54.150 –> 10:56.291

    [SPEAKER_02]: And part of how we’ve decided to separate is

    10:57.551 –> 11:01.835

    [SPEAKER_02]: filming fitness content in the studio is pretty straightforward.

    11:02.275 –> 11:04.337

    [SPEAKER_02]: You can find hundreds of companies that do it.

    11:04.417 –> 11:05.919

    [SPEAKER_02]: It’s relatively inexpensive.

    11:06.479 –> 11:10.723

    [SPEAKER_02]: We decided to go the hard route, which is doing something that was different.

    11:11.303 –> 11:14.266

    [SPEAKER_02]: It was a little more expensive on a per workout basis.

    11:14.586 –> 11:19.471

    [SPEAKER_02]: We literally take a film crew, a trainer, and fly them all over the world to film

    11:22.313 –> 11:25.275

    [SPEAKER_02]: But it’s set as a part, it’s part of what makes this very different.

    11:25.695 –> 11:40.063

    [SPEAKER_02]: It’s also part of what drives the engagement that we have from our athletes as well, because when you’re on our treadmill or on our bike or even working out, you know, Pilate strength, whatever it might be, it’s just very visually engaging for somebody in the studio.

    11:40.403 –> 11:45.228

    [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for explaining the detail that it really does relate to the strategy you were talking about straight.

    11:45.288 –> 11:52.455

    [SPEAKER_00]: I obviously they’ve got to go and create this brilliant new content to explore new places when you’re doing your run, doing your cycling etc.

    11:52.475 –> 11:58.100

    [SPEAKER_00]: Because I know you said you sell I fit to people who don’t have the physical products as well as those who do.

    11:58.180 –> 11:59.461

    [SPEAKER_00]: So have you found

    12:00.322 –> 12:03.706

    [SPEAKER_00]: a completely different customer for the subscription business.

    12:03.806 –> 12:18.284

    [SPEAKER_00]: Is it more about trying to turn existing customers into subscribers or more about bringing new people to the mix to then try and sell them hardware or is it kind of just two venn diagrams that you eventually want to completely overlap and become a circle?

    12:18.504 –> 12:21.165

    [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I would say it’s a little bit of both, right?

    12:21.245 –> 12:24.587

    [SPEAKER_02]: So we have an amazing hardware business that does very well.

    12:24.727 –> 12:27.368

    [SPEAKER_02]: We lead the world in treadmills, has an example.

    12:27.868 –> 12:32.670

    [SPEAKER_02]: So we have an attachment business that we sell to our hardware customers.

    12:33.010 –> 12:36.832

    [SPEAKER_02]: So we have a subscription that pairs with all of our hardware works really, really well.

    12:37.352 –> 12:44.095

    [SPEAKER_02]: But we also have a business where any customer can join, as well, where you don’t need the hardware.

    12:44.635 –> 12:57.802

    [SPEAKER_02]: And this is, I can really important part, is when you build something that is inherently interesting for one audience, oftentimes as a business owner, you could think you’ve built this thing for this very specific group.

    12:58.483 –> 13:11.610

    [SPEAKER_02]: And what we ended up finding is that while yes, it was very attractive to the people who were buying Nordic track equipment or pro-form equipment or whatever it might be, there was inherent value in what we had built just in the general population.

    13:12.170 –> 13:30.282

    [SPEAKER_02]: So there was a moment where we decided to, instead of just focusing in on an attachment business, we decided to say, hey, let’s just open it up to the general population, because the thing we built is really pretty cool, and it will help people on their health and wellness journey, which is really what we’re focused on.

    13:30.962 –> 13:38.127

    [SPEAKER_02]: At the end of the day, we’re talking a lot about a subscription from an I-Fit perspective, really what we are selling is a healthier life.

    13:38.727 –> 14:05.549

    [SPEAKER_02]: And ultimately what we do is a business is we help people achieve their health and fitness goals through really interesting, very engaging, interactive workout programs and series that’s paired with an AI coach that helps you ultimately personalize your experience and sort to get what you want out of it very specifically versus just an endless menu of fitness options,

    14:07.002 –> 14:12.884

    [SPEAKER_00]: I’m glad you mentioned the AI coach because I wanted to ask you about that, what’s the role of the AI?

    14:13.264 –> 14:26.649

    [SPEAKER_00]: I guess it’s personalising the experience for the customers and it is that part of this endless challenge of creating newness within this subscription is the AI coach part of that or is it more the personalisation side?

    14:26.689 –> 14:27.970

    [SPEAKER_00]: What’s driven you to create it?

    14:28.408 –> 14:28.508

    [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

    14:28.588 –> 14:30.949

    [SPEAKER_02]: I would say it’s a little bit of both to be honest.

    14:31.349 –> 14:39.192

    [SPEAKER_02]: So on the one side, you know, when you think about health and wellness and fitness, everyone’s journey is unique.

    14:39.872 –> 14:41.553

    [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone is at a different starting point.

    14:41.693 –> 14:43.614

    [SPEAKER_02]: They have a different end point in in mind.

    14:44.134 –> 14:53.079

    [SPEAKER_02]: you know, some people want to lose 10 pounds before they’re wedding, other people want to be able to lift their grandkids up and have the strength to be able to do that.

    14:53.420 –> 14:55.921

    [SPEAKER_02]: Some people want to be able to run a mile for the first time.

    14:56.301 –> 14:58.263

    [SPEAKER_02]: Some people want to be able to run a marathon.

    14:58.703 –> 15:02.265

    [SPEAKER_02]: Others want to be able to run faster than they did when they were in their 20s, right?

    15:02.785 –> 15:06.588

    [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody’s health and wellness goals are very different.

    15:07.568 –> 15:16.610

    [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we’ve built a really wide assortment of products that can help people with that in our content and our workout.

    15:17.210 –> 15:28.473

    [SPEAKER_02]: What the AI coach does is it takes what your very specific goals are, what you are very specifically trying to achieve and it will custom tailor the plan to you.

    15:29.133 –> 15:32.075

    [SPEAKER_02]: And look, everybody’s using AI in their business today.

    15:32.215 –> 15:35.858

    [SPEAKER_02]: And if you’re not, and if you’re listening to this, I’m going to tell you you are behind, right?

    15:35.938 –> 15:37.779

    [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think you probably already know that.

    15:38.180 –> 15:56.853

    [SPEAKER_02]: But the way that we’re really leveraging it at the moment is to deliver a very personalized experience, because in your health, your life, your fitness, it’s very personal, and we can tailor those plans, based on what you want to do to help you achieve those outcomes.

    15:57.407 –> 16:04.271

    [SPEAKER_00]: So the quality of the subscription product is clearly super important to getting a maintaining the subscribers.

    16:04.991 –> 16:10.854

    [SPEAKER_00]: How else do you go about growing the subscription customer base?

    16:11.275 –> 16:14.997

    [SPEAKER_00]: Is it emailing the existing purchases of Nordic track?

    16:15.077 –> 16:22.821

    [SPEAKER_00]: Or is it going out there and doing above the line activity below the line activity without totally spilling all the beans?

    16:23.141 –> 16:26.503

    [SPEAKER_00]: What’s your approach to growing that subscription list?

    16:26.887 –> 16:27.788

    [SPEAKER_02]: I’ll say it’s a few things.

    16:27.828 –> 16:30.851

    [SPEAKER_02]: I’ll talk maybe generally about it and then we can talk about it, I fit it.

    16:30.911 –> 16:34.955

    [SPEAKER_02]: But I’d like to think about kind of putting things into four buckets.

    16:35.496 –> 16:45.766

    [SPEAKER_02]: So the first one is acquisition and in acquisition, you need to think really clearly about who your audience is, why they resonate with your offer.

    16:46.607 –> 16:55.377

    [SPEAKER_02]: how you very clearly message to them, how you very clearly target them, and how you deliver like a really easy onboarding experience, right?

    16:55.857 –> 16:59.962

    [SPEAKER_02]: So most products have a very general mass market appeal.

    16:59.982 –> 17:01.924

    [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of fitness is a good example of that.

    17:01.944 –> 17:03.666

    [SPEAKER_02]: There’s many other products that are similar.

    17:04.286 –> 17:04.366

    [SPEAKER_02]: And

    17:05.007 –> 17:33.621

    [SPEAKER_02]: you don’t want to go boil the ocean right you’ve got to be really focused with your capital and your marketing spend and your product and all of these things so you have to in in this first bucket the first thing you have to do is be really clear about who you’re trying to get and land messaging that will help acquire them whether that’s a attachment business like selling eye fit to Nordic track customers or you’re trying to attract a general market either way you got to be really clear on what you offer and why they should care that’s the first

    17:34.481 –> 17:44.345

    [SPEAKER_02]: The second thing in this one is maybe a little less traditional, but something that I have always found in subscriptions is really important, which is delivering early value.

    17:45.045 –> 17:49.227

    [SPEAKER_02]: When someone decides to subscribe, there’s all of these firsts that happen.

    17:49.787 –> 17:51.688

    [SPEAKER_02]: You have the first time you use the product.

    17:51.728 –> 17:55.649

    [SPEAKER_02]: You have the first time that you’ve tried X or Y feature of the product.

    17:55.949 –> 17:57.630

    [SPEAKER_02]: You have the first time he gets your bill.

    17:57.990 –> 18:00.771

    [SPEAKER_02]: You have the first time you talk to your friend or family member about it.

    18:00.791 –> 18:02.692

    [SPEAKER_02]: There’s all of these firsts that happen.

    18:03.472 –> 18:20.200

    [SPEAKER_02]: And along those first, the first thing you want to do is show up exactly the way you said you would right from your advertising and commercial and all of that kind of stuff when people go through those first moments, they’re really magical and really important that you show up the way that the customer would have expected you to.

    18:20.220 –> 18:25.823

    [SPEAKER_02]: And then the second part is you have to very quickly deliver value.

    18:26.723 –> 18:34.549

    [SPEAKER_02]: Because at some point what’s going to happen is the customer is going to say I’m using this thing and I’m using this thing, but I’m not really getting the benefit that I had hoped.

    18:35.170 –> 18:48.040

    [SPEAKER_02]: So we like to build in things that allow customers to see quick value and in our world, the good news is with wearables and watches and like all these things, everybody has connected biometrics.

    18:48.640 –> 18:57.625

    [SPEAKER_02]: So it’s very easy for us to demonstrate that to a customer, is that, you know, your VO2 max went from A to B or your cardiac age went from A to B, right?

    18:57.645 –> 19:04.329

    [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever it might be, but find a way in your business to very clearly demonstrate value for a customer.

    19:05.189 –> 19:12.919

    [SPEAKER_02]: and make those magical moments in the beginning that all of those first happen really, really well, be super disciplined about that.

    19:13.059 –> 19:14.200

    [SPEAKER_02]: So that’s the second bucket.

    19:14.881 –> 19:17.104

    [SPEAKER_02]: The third bucket is engagement.

    19:17.124 –> 19:24.532

    [SPEAKER_02]: And after you get out of the kind of the first month or two, you kind of get into the cycle where you’re having to drive engagement with the product.

    19:25.153 –> 19:33.883

    [SPEAKER_02]: And in any subscription, you’re going to have a population of people who are heavy users, average users, and people who don’t use it at all, right?

    19:34.264 –> 19:37.027

    [SPEAKER_02]: And that’s just a typical subscription business.

    19:37.707 –> 19:39.089

    [SPEAKER_02]: But no confusion.

    19:39.149 –> 19:40.891

    [SPEAKER_02]: The people who aren’t using it at all,

    19:41.812 –> 19:49.222

    [SPEAKER_02]: As a business owner, you might look at it and say, like, oh, this is great, you know, like they’re paying me every month and you know, they’re not really using it and I’m making like loads of cash, right?

    19:49.623 –> 19:54.870

    [SPEAKER_02]: No confusion, though, the reality is those customers are going to leave at some point, right?

    19:55.231 –> 19:58.055

    [SPEAKER_02]: You have to drive engagement with your product and

    19:58.555 –> 20:08.403

    [SPEAKER_02]: at the end of the day, you want people using your product as much as possible because that’s ultimately what builds loyal ambassadors for your business, right?

    20:08.484 –> 20:10.085

    [SPEAKER_02]: That’s the third bucket is engagement.

    20:10.705 –> 20:13.107

    [SPEAKER_02]: And then the fourth is what I like to call expansion.

    20:13.888 –> 20:22.394

    [SPEAKER_02]: So, you’ve built a business, you’ve built a baseline business, you’ve got a healthy operating business, customers are happy, things are working well, they’re using your product.

    20:22.774 –> 20:24.535

    [SPEAKER_02]: Now, you need to think about how you expand.

    20:25.256 –> 20:38.245

    [SPEAKER_02]: And whether that is expanding in the product that you offer to the current customers through new features, new tiers, adjacent offerings, whatever it might be, or it might be building on the core product that you have,

    20:38.765 –> 20:43.008

    [SPEAKER_02]: so that you can attract a new audience that’s adjacent to the one that you have.

    20:43.508 –> 21:00.360

    [SPEAKER_02]: So once you kind of land the first three clear acquisition pillars, making it really easy to onboard and get value out of it quickly and then driving engagement, you’ve kind of earned the right to start to expand beyond what the core offers.

    21:00.856 –> 21:21.955

    [SPEAKER_00]: What I find fascinating in those four buckets is one of them or one point five of them is about acquisition and 2.5 slash three of them are about retention and that is pretty much the exact reverse of a normal in inverted commas e commas operation does that reflect

    21:23.059 –> 21:30.664

    [SPEAKER_00]: effort budget focus, is it that skewed towards retention and keeping happy customers and great product?

    21:30.984 –> 21:34.086

    [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the way that I like to think about it, I think you’re always focused on both.

    21:34.106 –> 21:35.747

    [SPEAKER_02]: They’re both very important.

    21:35.947 –> 21:39.949

    [SPEAKER_02]: I sort of started with I, you know, everything I do starts with the customer, right?

    21:40.229 –> 21:46.193

    [SPEAKER_02]: And every person who’s purchased is a customer and every person who hasn’t isn’t a customer yet, they’re a potential customer, right?

    21:46.793 –> 21:48.574

    [SPEAKER_02]: But a couple things that I would say about

    21:53.112 –> 22:04.462

    [SPEAKER_02]: Think about how hard it is to find the one customer that says, yes, the one customer, like all of the marketing effort that you had to do, your sales channels, your website, your app, your stores, right?

    22:04.482 –> 22:11.207

    [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever it might be, all of the work that you put in to just get ready for one customer to say yes.

    22:11.948 –> 22:16.552

    [SPEAKER_02]: How frustrating is it when they go to use your product or your subscription or whatever it is?

    22:16.592 –> 22:19.414

    [SPEAKER_02]: And they leave a month after they’ve joined.

    22:20.735 –> 22:24.137

    [SPEAKER_02]: both are very important to the business overall.

    22:24.497 –> 22:26.519

    [SPEAKER_02]: If you can acquire customers, you can’t grow.

    22:26.959 –> 22:29.641

    [SPEAKER_02]: But if you can’t keep them, you can’t grow either.

    22:30.421 –> 22:35.104

    [SPEAKER_02]: And there’s a metric that exists in ever subscription business that’s called net subscribers.

    22:36.005 –> 22:41.228

    [SPEAKER_02]: And net subscribers is really ultimately how many customers did you bring in for the period?

    22:42.098 –> 22:47.101

    [SPEAKER_02]: minus how many left for the period, and is that number a positive or a negative number?

    22:47.922 –> 22:49.263

    [SPEAKER_02]: And it’s just math, right?

    22:49.383 –> 22:57.509

    [SPEAKER_02]: You can bring in loads of new customers, but if your existing customers are leaving at a higher rate, then it’s really hard to grow.

    22:58.229 –> 23:09.697

    [SPEAKER_02]: And so really what you have to do is you have to focus on both parts, attracting the right customers important, but keeping every customer and thinking that every customer matters is also important.

    23:10.803 –> 23:15.526

    [SPEAKER_01]: E-commerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the E-commerce sector.

    23:15.686 –> 23:17.087

    [SPEAKER_01]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

    23:27.978 –> 23:33.381

    [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I love this section because it’s me and on Insta’s some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

    23:33.401 –> 23:35.422

    [SPEAKER_00]: So Jeremy are you ready for the top tips?

    23:35.903 –> 23:36.463

    [SPEAKER_02]: Let’s do it.

    23:36.783 –> 23:38.464

    [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the book top tip.

    23:38.604 –> 23:45.348

    [SPEAKER_00]: If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

    23:45.768 –> 23:49.009

    [SPEAKER_02]: So there was a lot of choices here that I thought about.

    23:49.489 –> 23:53.610

    [SPEAKER_02]: And I wanted to connect it back to the topic that we’ve been talking about.

    23:54.090 –> 24:01.792

    [SPEAKER_02]: So the CEO’s last company I was at about a year ago, he handed me a book to read called, Predictably Irrational by Dan Arlie.

    24:02.552 –> 24:07.213

    [SPEAKER_02]: And it’s really a playbook about supercharging your business.

    24:07.353 –> 24:14.295

    [SPEAKER_02]: And it goes into, I would say, some of the like psychology that customers have when they shop

    24:16.175 –> 24:23.599

    [SPEAKER_02]: But some of what you’ll learn if you read it is about how to do tiered plans in anchoring.

    24:23.799 –> 24:38.487

    [SPEAKER_02]: You’ll learn all about the concept of having a small medium and large offering and the psychology that customers use when they approach three different tiers of plans and how when done right you can move people to the middle.

    24:39.377 –> 24:48.688

    [SPEAKER_02]: or you can use something that’s called the decoy effect, or what I like to call popcorn pricing, which ultimately moves people from the small to the large very quickly.

    24:49.129 –> 24:51.331

    [SPEAKER_02]: So there’s a lot that you can learn in there about that.

    24:51.812 –> 24:55.436

    [SPEAKER_02]: You can also learn about the effects of the zero price effect.

    24:55.896 –> 25:16.822

    [SPEAKER_02]: or the fact that the word free is the most powerful word in any language and it talks a lot about why that is and why people call it free trials or you know gift with purchase and things of that nature and some of what it helped me focus in on is working in some of those words and places

    25:21.183 –> 25:36.366

    [SPEAKER_02]: free customer returns or free 30 day trial or like the just a few different things that you can learn about how to weave that in to your mind because at the end of the day free is a really really powerful word and then the last thing I would say.

    25:37.227 –> 25:55.036

    [SPEAKER_02]: I learned and this was like a really, really interesting one, I think, for the e-commerce audience is there’s something called loss of version and the renewal reminders in the book and really the notion of it is that people hate losing money more than they like gaining money in some cases.

    25:55.756 –> 26:03.380

    [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, when you think about the commerce, you know, we’re very quick to say, like, you know, October sale or, you know, whatever it might be.

    26:03.400 –> 26:20.570

    [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, they go through really specific case study where they try different versions of how to motivate someone to purchase and how time and very specifically how and how time was like a really big factor to motivating someone to do something.

    26:21.190 –> 26:32.163

    [SPEAKER_02]: And look, many of these things are things that you probably have woven into your business already, but I like reading it because it kind of brought it all to the front of the mind and gave reasons why we do the things that we do.

    26:32.787 –> 26:33.007

    [SPEAKER_00]: nice.

    26:33.127 –> 26:38.490

    [SPEAKER_00]: I will be grabbing that book straight after this podcast because that was one serious recommendation.

    26:38.510 –> 26:38.950

    [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.

    26:39.370 –> 26:41.931

    [SPEAKER_00]: And I know you guys can’t see this, but I’ve just seen the cover.

    26:42.231 –> 26:43.132

    [SPEAKER_00]: It’s that close.

    26:43.572 –> 26:44.613

    [SPEAKER_00]: It’s that close to Jeremy.

    26:44.633 –> 26:45.633

    [SPEAKER_00]: It’s right there on his desk.

    26:45.733 –> 26:45.993

    [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

    26:46.033 –> 26:47.354

    [SPEAKER_00]: Jeremy next top tip.

    26:47.874 –> 26:48.755

    [SPEAKER_00]: Traffic top tip.

    26:48.935 –> 26:53.637

    [SPEAKER_00]: Which marketing method do you either prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?

    26:54.266 –> 27:03.871

    [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, I thought a lot about this one and, you know, I think, you know, most people kind of go into the direction of some form of a paid tactic.

    27:03.911 –> 27:14.376

    [SPEAKER_02]: They have a favorite trying to pay tactic hack that they’ve done, whether it’s upper funnel or lower funnel or a partner that they’ve done, I think I’m kind of going to go in a different direction.

    27:14.997 –> 27:16.558

    [SPEAKER_02]: And I’m going to share a different point of view.

    27:17.478 –> 27:20.020

    [SPEAKER_02]: which is press and earned media.

    27:20.781 –> 27:32.051

    [SPEAKER_02]: So from my perspective, earned media does not nearly get the attention it needs as a traffic driver, and it is also one of the hardest to get right.

    27:32.927 –> 27:33.788

    [SPEAKER_02]: You can’t wing it.

    27:33.988 –> 27:35.449

    [SPEAKER_02]: There’s no AB testing it.

    27:35.529 –> 27:37.771

    [SPEAKER_02]: There’s not like put a piece of creative out of it.

    27:37.811 –> 27:39.392

    [SPEAKER_02]: Does well do something different.

    27:39.432 –> 27:41.094

    [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes, you can learn over time.

    27:41.654 –> 27:47.399

    [SPEAKER_02]: But early media is something that you have to plan over months, sometimes quarters in advance.

    27:47.419 –> 27:51.242

    [SPEAKER_02]: You have to really be thoughtful about how you show up as a company.

    27:51.682 –> 27:58.548

    [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of connects your company strategy, your marketing approach, who you’re targeting, your product.

    27:58.588 –> 28:00.849

    [SPEAKER_02]: It really kind of connects all these things together.

    28:01.690 –> 28:16.640

    [SPEAKER_02]: and it forces you to think about how you want to show up in the market, and if done well, it can be a very, very powerful force for traffic, and it’s really hard to get right, and it’s one of my favorite tools.

    28:17.330 –> 28:23.613

    [SPEAKER_00]: I love that recommendation, and yeah, you have to do some serious thinking through before you get started.

    28:24.193 –> 28:34.838

    [SPEAKER_00]: The tall top tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug-in, a phone-up, or just a way of working, is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team at more efficient from day to day?

    28:35.252 –> 28:38.374

    [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I’m going to say that this is a really straightforward one.

    28:38.674 –> 28:43.456

    [SPEAKER_02]: I’ve talked about how important the customer’s voices for me and my team and our business.

    28:44.056 –> 28:50.520

    [SPEAKER_02]: So we actually use social media a lot to drive engagements within side of our company.

    28:51.000 –> 28:59.404

    [SPEAKER_02]: So we have an I fit Facebook group and Instagram group with 100 plus thousand members that are very active in connecting with each other.

    29:00.328 –> 29:17.633

    [SPEAKER_02]: And part of how we use that is looking for the information about how they’re talking about the product, what features they wish we would use, if we do an update or a new software release, how did it go, where are there any bugs, where the things that they loved about it, right, whatever it might be.

    29:18.273 –> 29:25.955

    [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, while our customers may not know that we are this intently focused on it, we’re literally reading all of it and mining it for ways that we can

    29:29.134 –> 29:29.534

    [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.

    29:29.554 –> 29:35.737

    [SPEAKER_00]: It’s so easy to do a survey, but then you’re getting like, it’s almost a slightly fake response when you do a survey, but just observing.

    29:36.378 –> 29:37.418

    [SPEAKER_00]: So, so cool.

    29:37.478 –> 29:38.319

    [SPEAKER_00]: Love that idea.

    29:38.419 –> 29:38.679

    [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

    29:39.179 –> 29:44.161

    [SPEAKER_00]: The carbon top tip, what’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

    29:44.362 –> 29:45.142

    [SPEAKER_02]: Personal story.

    29:45.162 –> 29:49.664

    [SPEAKER_02]: I have owned an EV electric vehicle since like 2012.

    29:52.398 –> 29:52.598

    [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

    29:52.638 –> 29:54.500

    [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like a super early adopter.

    29:54.520 –> 29:58.123

    [SPEAKER_02]: I think I’m on my sixth one or something along those lines.

    29:58.183 –> 30:01.927

    [SPEAKER_02]: So I have always been a big believer in this as a topic.

    30:02.387 –> 30:08.793

    [SPEAKER_02]: You know, from a business perspective, I think you kind of take the same mindset as you might personally, right?

    30:08.813 –> 30:10.875

    [SPEAKER_02]: I don’t think there’s any one silver bullet.

    30:10.995 –> 30:13.517

    [SPEAKER_02]: I think you’re always looking for ways to do your part.

    30:13.998 –> 30:18.081

    [SPEAKER_02]: And I think a lot of it comes from what are ways that you can drive efficiency?

    30:18.942 –> 30:24.724

    [SPEAKER_02]: at the same time reduce waste or whatever it might be for your particular type of business.

    30:25.244 –> 30:31.227

    [SPEAKER_02]: So I’m always looking at the intersection of like what’s good for the planet, but what’s also good for the business.

    30:31.747 –> 30:34.548

    [SPEAKER_02]: And usually if you find those things, it’s also good for the customer.

    30:35.060 –> 30:36.021

    [SPEAKER_00]: I like that answer.

    30:36.221 –> 30:37.782

    [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much Jeremy.

    30:37.822 –> 30:43.466

    [SPEAKER_00]: Now before we say goodbye, would you please at the listeners know where they can find you and your business on the web and social media?

    30:43.767 –> 30:44.327

    [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

    30:44.627 –> 30:54.675

    [SPEAKER_02]: You can find us at iFid.com or at all of the major social channels linked in Instagram, Facebook, all of your favorites, literally at iFid.

    30:55.395 –> 30:56.196

    [SPEAKER_00]: Simple as that.

    30:56.276 –> 30:56.757

    [SPEAKER_00]: Love it.

    30:56.817 –> 30:58.479

    [SPEAKER_00]: Jeremy, thank you so much for coming on.

    30:58.579 –> 31:03.345

    [SPEAKER_00]: It has been an absolute pleasure learning from you on how to grow subscriptions.

    31:03.385 –> 31:04.866

    [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you very much for being on the show.

    31:05.107 –> 31:05.387

    [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.

    31:05.407 –> 31:06.028

    [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having me.

    31:11.559 –> 31:12.881

    [SPEAKER_00]: what a lot to process.

    31:13.181 –> 31:23.392

    [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so for me, the two things that really really stood out was one, how important the subscription product is.

    31:24.053 –> 31:30.800

    [SPEAKER_00]: And thinking of it with a big old 360 view, you know, he was talking about those first and how it goes all the way through to

    31:31.801 –> 31:42.229

    [SPEAKER_00]: The first time they talk to someone else about your product, how do you make that journey that experience so seamless that it’s just a brilliant experience for all of them?

    31:42.709 –> 31:49.073

    [SPEAKER_00]: So think about that and to be honest, think about that in any business, not just a subscription business, but especially in the subscription business space.

    31:49.153 –> 31:50.614

    [SPEAKER_00]: How can you make that?

    31:51.695 –> 31:54.338

    [SPEAKER_00]: really stack up really work for your customers.

    31:55.138 –> 32:02.585

    [SPEAKER_00]: So that part about getting the product right, it will bring in the customers, it will retain the customers and so on and so forth.

    32:02.905 –> 32:09.351

    [SPEAKER_00]: And then also the customers listening to them, understanding them, understanding why they want your product.

    32:09.531 –> 32:22.044

    [SPEAKER_00]: and how you can use that to grow your sales and I loved the idea of monitoring what’s happening on social media, the real unfiltered views of your customers, not just running surveys to understand what they want, what they need and so on and so forth.

    32:23.864 –> 32:33.528

    [SPEAKER_00]: You can get our notes, our full notes on the episode, plus the transcript and links and all those kind of good things by heading over to ecommercemasterplanned.com.

    32:33.828 –> 32:41.312

    [SPEAKER_00]: You can also use our direct episode short links, just put ECMP.info-4zash, the number of this episode into the RLB.

    32:41.552 –> 32:43.993

    [SPEAKER_00]: And you’ll be redirected straight to the right episode page.

    32:44.553 –> 32:48.036

    [SPEAKER_00]: When you get to the website, you can also add yourself to our email list.

    32:48.157 –> 32:48.677

    [SPEAKER_00]: Why not?

    32:48.777 –> 32:49.498

    [SPEAKER_00]: Go on, do it.

    32:49.938 –> 32:54.362

    [SPEAKER_00]: So you don’t miss out on any of the other things I share to help you improve your business.

    32:54.382 –> 33:08.175

    [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you liked this episode, then why not go and have a listen to episode 401 with the always brilliant Christina Smith from Big Island Coffee Roasters about a totally different subscription product.

    33:08.195 –> 33:09.036

    [SPEAKER_00]: So we’re going from

    33:10.077 –> 33:16.761

    [SPEAKER_00]: a digital subscription that will keep you active through to one that will deliver your coffee to you on a regular basis.

    33:16.801 –> 33:18.922

    [SPEAKER_00]: But super insightful, well worth a listen.

    33:18.982 –> 33:31.050

    [SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to dive into more on subscription, then head to ECMP.info forwardsash subscription, where you will find a paid on the website full of all our episodes that relate to subscription businesses.

    33:31.690 –> 33:37.054

    [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for tuning in to this and every episode that you do of this e-commerce master plan podcast.

    33:37.515 –> 33:44.680

    [SPEAKER_00]: We bring you a new interview every week to inspire and help you to succeed and thrive with your business, including becoming more sustainable.

    33:45.141 –> 33:51.025

    [SPEAKER_00]: So if you know someone this show can help, I would love it if you would tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

    33:51.386 –> 33:54.268

    [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimising.

    33:57.427 –> 34:00.789

    [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

    34:01.190 –> 34:05.993

    [SPEAKER_01]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com Slash podcast.

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    eCommerce Master PlanBy Chloe Thomas