When it comes to Te Pāti Māori’s political ideology, co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer says it’s complicated. While the party was formerly “comfortable with National”, she says they now “lean left” in the “Western-centric sense”. But Ngarewa-Packer thinks they’re best described as simply “indigenous”.

“We are an indigenous movement. [...] We are the only party that believes in Māori.”

It was a hectic day when we visited Te Pāti Māori. Ngarewa-Packer’s co-leader, Rawiri Waititi, was suspended from Parliament for allegedly breaching a court suppression order while speaking in the house, leaving her to pick up all his responsibilities. But she isn’t bothered—“we dont give a shit”, she laughs. Despite the chaos, Ngarewa-Packer invited us to park up on her couch and chat about their goals and aspirations for the upcoming election.

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This podcast is a Salient Podcasts Production. Produced by Alex Marinkovich-Josey