Elizabeth Spiers, journalist, editor and entrepreneur, joins Steve Krakauer to talk Gawker's impact and the new iteration coming, what it means to be countercultural in today's media environment, the incentive structure for the press to go after certain kinds of power, working for Jared Kushner (and Laurel Touby, and Nick Denton), the Substack Discourse, ideology vs. orthodoxy in the opinion section, dissecting the terms "cancel culture" and "woke," and more.

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