How do you build software for a diversity of customers? Carl and Richard talk to Lily Dart about what it takes to really build diversity-sensitive software, and it starts with understanding the difference between sympathy and empathy. Lily talks about how folks fall into the trap of avoiding diversity using empathy training - but real empathy takes understanding, and that means living with diversity. There's no substitute for a diverse team, and even then, you'll still need to research into areas of diversity your team doesn't have. It's hard work, but worth it!