In this special episode of the podcast, Calvin Quek interviews the BEN podcast's longtime host, Anders Hove. Topics covered include how Anders came to China, his formative experiences working in China at the China Greentech Initiative, and how he got involved in the podcast. He even gives us his all time favorite episode (see link below). 

Calvin also discusses with Anders the topic of innovation in China's clean energy space, covered in a major paper Anders published last year at the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies (OIES).

This is a wide-ranging discussion, so here are a few links to help you follow along, based on things that were mentioned in the podcast:

Anders Hove, 'Clean energy innovation in China: fact and fiction, and implications for the future', Oxford Institute for Energy Studies, 2024.

https://www.oxfordenergy.org/publications/clean-energy-innovation-in-china-fact-and-fiction-and-implications-for-the-future/

'Global Energy Interconnection: The Dawn of a Global Power Grid?' Environment China podcast, 22 December 2019.

https://environmentchinapod.libsyn.com/global-energy-interconnection-the-dawn-of-the-global-power-grid

The Chinese Money Behind Oatly

https://thechinaproject.com/2021/08/13/the-chinese-money-behind-oatly/

China’s Race to Tech Supremacy: A Conversation with James Kynge

https://www.ft.com/content/535b3bd4-349d-45d2-8673-eeceefe3bb51

 

 

Green finance has been a hot topic for several years, and in some respects China is an overall leader in green finance -- at least in terms of the overall volume of green bonds and green loans. More green finance products are coming out at a steady stream. So what does all this mean for China's energy transition? Has it really helped, and is it contributing to greening China's investments abroad?

In today's podcast, we talk to longtime Beijing Energy Network green finance guru Calvin Quek about these and other questions. Calvin is the Executive Director, Nature Finance, Oxford Sustainable Finance Group, and he is also Director at Transition Asia. Previously he was Senior Environmental Specialist at the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) in Beijing.

We specifically discuss a column Calvin authored together with Mathias Larsen, Research Associate at Brown University's Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs and Non-resident Fellow at the Green Finance and Development Center at Fudan University. 

The column, 'What other countries can learn from how China financed a green transformation,' was published in Environmental Finance and can be found here: https://www.environmental-finance.com/content/analysis/what-other-countries-can-learn-from-how-china-financed-a-green-transformation.html. 

Here's a look at the discussion:

2:00 What is green finance? What does it mean, in terms of incentives and disincentives for investment decisions or corporate decisions?

4:07 What are green bonds and how do green bonds in China differ?

5:27 What is the evidence about where funds from green bonds and loans go in China? (Short answer: we have limited data, and there is some evidence that funds don’t necessarily go to green activities.)

6:45 What is a taxonomy?

9:20 Are green taxonomies or green finance instruments still going towards ‘clean coal’ or fossil fuels, and is that still a live part of the debate in China? (Short answer: yes.)

9:45 Did green finance play any role in China becoming the leader in clean energy technology? If so, how big?  (Short answer: yes, but only a small role.)

12:30 Additionality: In general, financing costs for favored sectors and for SOE-built infrastructure is already benefitting from incredibly low costs of capital. So in that context, is green finance providing any additional incentive – at least in China?

15:00 If most green finance goes to SOE projects that might have happened anyway, does it help some marginal green projects around the edges, or does the huge state sector actually crowd out green finance for marginal projects and innovative new tech?

16:45 For green hydrogen or other technologies that are not close to economic viability on their own, green finance is not going to make the difference?

18:00 Role of green finance in China’s overseas investments.

23:00 If green energy is more distributed, does that work against China’s green finance model, based on large loans for big projects? Or can small be beautiful?

 

In the latest episode of Environment China's podcast, we speak to Jialu Zuo. Jialu is a sustainability specialist at China National Aviation Fuel Group (CNAF), focusing on Sustainable Aviation Fuel (SAF) and international engagement. She holds dual Master’s degrees in Public Policy for the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), jointly awarded by Tsinghua University (Beijing) and the University of Geneva (Switzerland). She earned her Bachelor’s degree in International Relations and Diplomacy from Renmin University of China.   This episode is in Chinese and is produced by our Executive Producer Xiaodan Yuan (Joyce).   在环境中国最新一期的播客中，我们邀请到了左佳鹭 —— 佳鹭目前在能源央企做管培生，主要负责可持续航空燃料和企业的国际业务。她毕业于清华大学公共管理学院和日内瓦大学的可持续发展国际公共政策的双硕士项目。她曾在联合国贸易与发展会议担任可持续金融研究员，同时，佳鹭也是清华大学零碳未来青年协会的共同发起人。播客制作人：袁小丹。

In today's episode of Environment China, we’re doing something a little bit different, cross-posting a recording of a panel hosted by the Asia Society Policy Institute’s China Climate Hub. This panel discussion explores China’s latest emission trends, clean energy deployment, relationship with the global south, position at COP30, and impact of the U.S.-China trade war on the global energy transition.

The speakers are Kate Logan, director of China Climate Hub at Asia Society Policy Institute; Lauri Myllyvirta, non-resident senior fellow of China Climate Hub at Asia Society Policy Institute; and Anders Hove, senior research fellow at Oxford Institute for Energy Studies’ China Programme. Asia Society Policy Institute’s China Climate Hub Director Li Shuo moderates the conversation.

The original recording may be found in video format on YouTube at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZWFTO2lO9w&t=1139s

In this episode of Environment China, we are talking about China’s long-term pathway to carbon neutrality and, in particular, about the recent publication of the China Energy Transformation Outlook, or CETO, which provides two scenarios of China’s clean energy transition. We talk to Kaare Sandholt, International Chief Expert for the China Energy Transformation Programme. The programme is run by the Energy Research Institute  of the NDRC.

Topics we address include:

• The importance of long-term modeling, and its contribution compared to five-year plans or other policy planning
• How CETO's two main scenarios compare: both assume carbon neutrality by 2060 and similar GDP growth, but differ in terms of energy mix and technology progress
• The role of electrification and energy efficiency: starting with transport, but also in industry, which requires both a cleaner grid and lower direct combustion of fossil fuels, which wastes huge amounts of energy through waste heat
• The importance of structural economic transformation: CETO assumes China makes substantial progress transitioning away from heavy manufacturing
• The reforms that CETO anticipates, including especially in power markets (merit-order dispatch, cross-regional electricity trading, and price signals), but also in carbon markets and industry standards
• The role of gas: gas will rise rapidly in relative terms, with 50-50 growth between power sector and industry; in coastal provinces gas is for flexibility in the power sector, and inland provinces gas is for industry; but it will not become a major transition fuel that takes the place of coal
• The amount of wind and solar capacity that will be needed: while the RE capacity requirement has risen due to faster electricity demand growth, the annual additions needed are roughly in line with present wind and solar additions

The report is available in English here:

https://www.cet.energy/

And Kaare Sandholt has an excellent article in a recent issue of Carbon Brief, published together with Wang Zhongying:

https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-china-will-need-10000gw-of-wind-and-solar-by-2060/ 

 

Executive Producer of this episode: Anders Hove

 

According to a recent report by the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA), by sustaining its current expansion rate of renewable energy, China could cut 30% of power sector emissions & increase non-fossil energy share to over 40%. This would require renewable capacity of 5,000 GW by 2035 (roughly 3x current renewable capacity, or 4x current wind and solar capacity) and halting approvals of all new unabated coal power plants. CREA's report argues these goals can only be achieved through robust national targets, such as through the forthcoming Nationally Determined Contributions (NDC) targets. 

In this podcast, we speak with CREA's Belinda Schäpe about the details of this analysis, which was reported on in detail in Reuters, Bloomberg, and AFP. 

Belinda is a China Policy Analyst with the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA) where she analysis China's decarbonisation journey and advises policymakers on their diplomatic engagement with China. Previously, Belinda worked on climate diplomacy with China at the climate change think tank E3G, at the European Commission, Dialogue Earth, and a number of organisation working on economic cooperation between Europe and China. Belinda holds a double master’s degree in International Affairs from the London School of Economics and Peking University and a bachelor’s degree in Chinese Studies and Business Administration from Tübingen University. 

The full report from CREA is available here:

https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/chinas-clean-energy-trends-could-cut-emissions-by-30-in-2035-if-sustained/ 

Dear listeners, we hope you missed us during the long summer break! Now, we're back, and hope you'll join us again for another in-depth episode dealing with a rapidly expanding element of China's energy transition: offshore wind.

Today, we’re talking about China’s offshore wind sector and how it compares to the strategies pursued by Western countries, typified perhaps by the example of Norway. Our guest is longtime Beijing Energy Network member Erlend Ek, who was posted to Beijing and lived in China for over 15 years. He is now senior research strategy and energy lead with China Policy. Erlend has over this time headed a long list of commissioned research projects across a diverse range of topics, including China’s industrial development, trade policy, regional economic coordination, and the economic zones system. His master's thesis is entitled: "China and Norway: who leads in offshore wind energy and why? A study in motivation."

Key points addressed in the podcast:

• How China's offshore wind industry started out, and how it compares to the rest of the world. (It started late, but is now largest in the world by far.)
• How China's offshore wind compares technologically. (China has mastered almost the complete supply chain, but so far mainly competes for domestic projects.)
• The role of policy versus markets in China in offshore wind. Erlend points out that the Chinese state plays an important coordinating role, and a very active role in setting objectives, but relies heavily on the market for efficient outcomes within that context.
• How China's strategy differs from that of Norway and other countries more focused on "technology neutral" or "low cost" approaches to the energy transition.
• The two main critiques of China's energy transition and whether they are valid: (1) that subsidies have declining effectiveness and rising costs, meaning they are ultimately unsustainable in bringing about a transition and overly costly, and (2) that the private sector is inherently better at deciding where society should invest than the public sector or policy makers.
• How China localized the wind industry and whether its criticisms of industrial policies in Europe make sense.
• Whether other countries can compete with China in these fields, even with the best policies, given its scale and other advantages.

Episode produced by: Anders Hove

(This episode is a re-post of yesterday's episode, which was missing around 1 minute of content towards the end.)

 

Dear listeners, we hope you missed us during the long summer break! Now, we're back, and hope you'll join us again for another in-depth episode dealing with a rapidly expanding element of China's energy transition: offshore wind.

Today, we’re talking about China’s offshore wind sector and how it compares to the strategies pursued by Western countries, typified perhaps by the example of Norway. Our guest is longtime Beijing Energy Network member Erlend Ek, who was posted to Beijing and lived in China for over 15 years. He is now senior research strategy and energy lead with China Policy. Erlend has over this time headed a long list of commissioned research projects across a diverse range of topics, including China’s industrial development, trade policy, regional economic coordination, and the economic zones system. His master's thesis is entitled: "China and Norway: who leads in offshore wind energy and why? A study in motivation."

Key points addressed in the podcast:

• How China's offshore wind industry started out, and how it compares to the rest of the world. (It started late, but is now largest in the world by far.)
• How China's offshore wind compares technologically. (China has mastered almost the complete supply chain, but so far mainly competes for domestic projects.)
• The role of policy versus markets in China in offshore wind. Erlend points out that the Chinese state plays an important coordinating role, and a very active role in setting objectives, but relies heavily on the market for efficient outcomes within that context.
• How China's strategy differs from that of Norway and other countries more focused on "technology neutral" or "low cost" approaches to the energy transition.
• The two main critiques of China's energy transition and whether they are valid: (1) that subsidies have declining effectiveness and rising costs, meaning they are ultimately unsustainable in bringing about a transition and overly costly, and (2) that the private sector is inherently better at deciding where society should invest than the public sector or policy makers.
• How China localized the wind industry and whether its criticisms of industrial policies in Europe make sense.
• Whether other countries can compete with China in these fields, even with the best policies, given its scale and other advantages.

Episode produced by: Anders Hove

In the latest episode of Environment China's podcast, we speak to Maggie Yao. Maggie is a Senior Consultant at CCaSS EY Netherlands, primarily focusing on EU environmental policy, ESG due diligence, ESG strategy, and CSRD implementation. Prior to EY, she worked as an Associate at RMI China, where she conducted research on coal transition, renewable energy integration and system impact, and power market analysis. She also worked as a Senior Analyst for Coho Climate Advisors, a DC-based energy consulting firm and an ERM Group company. There, she engaged with multiple corporate and industrial companies to help them procure large-scale renewable energy in the United States. Maggie obtained her Bachelor's degree in Political Economy from UC Berkeley, and her Master's degrees from Yale School of the Environment and Johns Hopkins University.   This episode is in Chinese and is produced by our Executive Producer 袁小丹 Yuan Xiaodan (Joyce)

In the latest episode of Environment China's podcast series on Young Professionals in Sustainability, we speak to UB Qiu. UB is a sustainability professional with diverse, international, cross-sector experiences, including in ESG consulting, in-house corporate sustainability, partnership development at a plant-based protein startup, and multiple internships and projects at climate-tech startups/social enterprises in the U.S., China, Kenya, and India. Additionally, she was part of Antler's inaugural Entrepreneur in Residence cohort in Saudi Arabia in 2023. UB holds a Master's Degree in Environmental Management from Yale University and a B.S. in Psychology and Environmental Policy from the College of William and Mary. She was an honoree of GreenBiz 30 Under 30 in 2021.   This episode is in Chinese and is produced by our Executive Producer Xiaodan Yuan.   在环境中国最新一期的环境能源可持续圈打工人系列播客中，我们邀请到了邱洋圣菁 UB —— UB 在可持续发展领域拥有多年的国际化经验，特别是在 ESG 咨询和企业可持续发展管理领域。她也曾在一家植物蛋白初创企业负责企业的合作伙伴拓展。过去两年，她在肯尼亚、印度、及中美参与多个气候科技创业公司、社会企业和碳金融方面的实习和研究项目。2023年底，她入驻新加坡早期创投资本公司 Antler 在沙特阿拉伯的首个驻场创业项目。UB 拥有耶鲁大学的环境管理硕士，及威廉玛丽学院的心理学和环境政策学士。播客文字版记录请查看北京能源网络公众号。   播客制作人：袁小丹