What happens when ministry becomes performance—and pastors become personalities?

In this episode of The Ministry Exchange, Dr. J. Wendell Mapson Jr. sits down with longtime friend and ministry peer Rev. Dr. Alyn E. Waller, Senior Pastor of Enon Tabernacle Baptist Church in Philadelphia. Together, they confront one of the most urgent questions facing the Black Church today: Have we traded the shepherd’s heart for the spotlight?

Dr. Waller, a fourth-generation preacher raised in a home where legends like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Gardner Taylor once gathered, shares how his musical calling eventually yielded to a pastoral assignment at Enon—a church he’s grown to more than 15,000 members across two campuses.

But behind the numbers is a deeper truth: real ministry can’t be manufactured. From celebrity culture in the pulpit to the growing disconnect between Sunday worship and weekday service, this conversation offers a timely challenge: “If you didn’t do anything last week and don’t plan on doing anything next week, why should God show up Sunday morning?”

Dr. Waller and Dr. Mapson wrestle with:

• The rise of ego-driven leadership and how it threatens the church’s witness
• Why power structures in ministry often shift from one extreme to the other
• How justice isn’t optional—it’s biblical
• What it means to lead a church that doesn’t just “do church,” but lives out the gospel every day

Whether you’re a pastor trying to rebuild trust, a church leader rethinking your ministry’s mission, or someone wrestling with what faithful leadership looks like in this cultural moment—this episode is both a mirror and a map.

Listen in—and discover how generational wisdom can help us move forward without losing what matters most.

Support the show

Thanks for tuning in to The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson
Where real conversations meet real ministry.

🎙️ Enjoying the podcast? Support the show ⬇️
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2456465/supporters/new

🎙️ The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson is powered by MinistryForward Media Group, helping churches and leaders grow through media, strategy, and leadership tools.

📲 Stay Connected:
Follow us on Instagram & Facebook: @ministryfwd / @drjwmapson
Visit our website: www.ministryfwd.com
(coming soon)
Watch episodes on YouTube: Search “The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson”

Want to collaborate or sponsor an episode?
Reach out at: [email protected]

This episode is proudly sponsored by Terry Funeral Home Inc.
For over 85 years, Terry Funeral Home has walked with families through life’s most sacred moments, offering care, dignity, and excellence when it matters most. Learn more at terryfuneralhome.com.

This episode is also supported by our Silver Partner, Palmer Theological Seminary.
Whole Gospel. Whole World. Whole Persons. Palmer equips leaders for transformative, justice-centered ministry through theological depth and holistic formation. Learn more at palmerseminary.edu.