A discussion between Jim Newman and Ryan Otis.  Within this apparent paradox arises an experience. That experience is, that this appearance is happening to 'me'. That experience is not paradoxical; it feels very real. There's no space, no room, no possibility for the reality, that 'this' isn't happening to ‚me’. That experience of duality is dissatisfying. It's uncomfortable. Out of that experience arises the need to bring about a wholeness, to cover up the feeling that what is, isn't complete, to make the feeling that it's not okay - okay. Out of that arises the need for good and bad and right and wrong. So this appearance then turns into ‚my life‘, and my life is the need to make 'this' better, 'this' good, to find out or to solve the problem of why I don't feel like it's okay, why I feel like something's wrong, why I feel like I need to seek, to find something else.  Here and in the meetings, there will be an uncovering, revealing, pointing to the reality, that that experience of separation, that experience that I'm real, that there's something wrong and that I need to do something about it, is illusory. In reality, THIS is whole, this is complete. There's nothing missing, there's no real lack, there's no real need for anything to happen.