Product Design for Learning Podcast:
L&D Data Rock: Key Strategies for Real Impact | Ep. 2Episode Summary

In this episode of Product Design for Learning, host Greg Arthur talks with Bo Duery, Impact Lead at Lepaya, about the pivotal role of data in designing and measuring learning programs. Bo shares insights from his journey from chemical engineering to Learning & Development (L&D), discussing why data should be an integral part of the design process. From setting actionable goals to using qualitative and quantitative methods, Bo shares strategies to help L&D professionals gather, analyze, and leverage data effectively.

Guest Profile

Name: Bo Duery

Title: Impact Lead at Lepaya

Background: Bo’s career began in chemical engineering and operational improvement before transitioning into L&D, where he emphasizes data-driven decision-making for soft skills training and performance enhancement. His approach combines analytical rigor with empathy for the learner experience, advocating for data that both informs and inspires impactful learning solutions.

Key Takeaways

• Understanding Data’s Role: Data isn’t just numbers; it’s a tool for deeper insights into learner needs and program effectiveness.
• The Value of Observation: Observing people in their work environments provides context beyond raw data, uncovering practical challenges and learning gaps.
• Setting Realistic Goals: Establishing three key levels—organizational goals, audience needs, and program specifics—ensures clear alignment from the start.
• Balancing Qualitative and Quantitative Data: Combining surveys and interviews creates a balanced view, capturing both measurable outcomes and nuanced experiences.
• Iterative Analysis: Regular reflection on data helps teams adapt quickly, making data analysis a continuous, rather than a one-time, process.
• Using Gut Feeling Cautiously: While instincts can be valuable, they should be backed by data, especially in team settings where opinions vary.

Questions AskedWhat led you to focus on data in the field of learning and development?

Bo shares his journey from operational improvement in industries like manufacturing and healthcare to his current role in L&D. He discusses how his experiences underscored the importance of tracking and measuring performance, which led him to advocate for data-informed learning strategies.

How do you define the role of data in the product design process?

Bo describes data as the investigative phase in design, where stakeholders align on questions, gather evidence, and distill insights. He emphasizes that data is essential in building a strong foundation, guiding teams before solutions are even considered.

How do you suggest approaching data collection in a learning project?

Bo recommends starting with a clear understanding of organizational goals, the audience’s needs, and program objectives. He advises a tiered approach that explores organizational impact, individual behaviors, and specific program details, using both qualitative and quantitative methods for a complete view.

What methods do you use for gathering data and understanding learning behaviors?

Bo emphasizes the value of in-person observation, shadowing, and direct interaction with learners to contextualize data. He advocates for exploring qualitative insights before relying solely on quantitative metrics, balancing the numbers with real-world context.

How can teams know if they have gathered “enough” data?

Bo advises balancing data collection with time and budget constraints. He suggests that confidence in presenting findings, especially to senior stakeholders, is a good indicator of having sufficient data.

How do you balance data with stakeholder instincts and gut feelings?

Bo discusses the importance of involving stakeholders early to gather their perspectives, which can help guide data collection. He notes that instincts often stem from experience, and blending these insights with data can create more informed decision-making.

What are some common mistakes when working with data in L&D, and how can they be avoided?

Reflecting on his own journey, Bo discusses early mistakes of being too rigorous and treating L&D as an exact science. He now advises a flexible approach that respects the complexities of learning, advocating for simpler, actionable insights over exhaustive data collection.

What tools or activities do you recommend for making the data phase effective?

Bo suggests tools like stakeholder check-ins, data affinity mapping, and regular reflection sessions. He highlights the importance of simplifying data insights on one slide, creating a “big picture” view that aligns with program goals.

Chapters and Time Stamps[00:01] – Introduction to Bo Duery and the Importance of Data

Greg introduces Bo, who shares his background and explains why data is central to effective learning programs.

[02:21] – Defining Data in the Product Design Process

Bo discusses how data acts as an investigative and alignment tool, bringing clarity before solutions are crafted.

[04:42] – Tackling Challenges in L&D Data Collection

Bo reflects on challenges in L&D with data collection, especially in organizations unfamiliar with this approach.

[06:01] – Building a Three-Tiered Approach to Data Collection

Bo shares his framework of aligning data with organizational goals, audience needs, and program objectives.

[08:56] – Observing Learners in Their Environments

Bo discusses the benefits of direct observation and qualitative research to understand real-world learning challenges.

[12:12] – Knowing When You Have Enough Data

The hosts discuss balancing thoroughness with practicality, including when to rely on “gut feeling” in decision-making.

[20:13] – Analyzing Data and Recognizing Patterns

Greg and Bo discuss methods for analyzing data, including affinity mapping and using group insights to spot patterns.

[26:55] – Advice for Overcoming Data Collection Challenges

Bo provides advice for teams new to data collection, recommending curiosity and stakeholder engagement as essential starting points.

[38:45] – Tools and Techniques for Effective Data Use in L&D

Bo shares practical tools and techniques, from maintaining stakeholder relationships to simplifying data insights.

[43:15] – Closing Remarks and Resources for Further Learning

Bo gives a shout-out to influential researchers and offers to connect with listeners on LinkedIn.

About the Podcast

The Product Design for Learning podcast delves into the intricacies of creating effective, data-informed learning experiences. Each episode features expert guests who share insights, tools, and strategies for designing impactful learning solutions. Host Greg Arthur engages with leaders in the field, offering listeners practical advice on everything from the design process to implementation, helping L&D professionals enhance their skills and drive organizational impact.