David Matheson was formally a member  of the Later Day Saints church, and even went on a  mission for the church. He got his bachelor,s  degree from BYU in counseling. Because he wanted to help people, especially those that were part of the Mormon church he went into counseling, which eventually led to “conversion therapy counseling“ . After spending many years, doing conversion therapy counseling, he had to deal with one sobering fact:” he never changed anyone’s sexual orientation.”He trained under one of the leaders/developers of conversion therapy, and he tells an incredible story even coming out to accept himself as a gay man . You will  find this podcast riveting and insightful